Workshops

[Fairlead]

I am looking for thoughts and ideas on setting up evening, all day or weekend workshops.
One to One or One to ? or 2/3 to many.
Broad Subject headings perceived as being - Practical Knotting (for boaters, climbers, anglers etc) - Netting - Splicing - Decorative Knots - Projects - Books, History & Science - Rope Manufacture etc.
Peoples likes/dislikes about workshops versus formal teaching.

Gordon

[Phil_The_Rope]

Hello Gordon.

I've already given this topic some thought, in terms of decorative stuff anyway (I know very little about practical knots). I am already talking to a college about doing this, but it's early days yet.

With regards to workshops in decorative stuff, I think it's very important that any project MUST be achievable. For example, you don't want people going home with a half-finished landyard!

I think it's also preferable if "students" leave with good notes and pictures or video to remind them how to do things. We want them to come back for more rather than give up because they think it's beyond them after a disappointing first attempt and they've forgotten how to do something.

A little research has revealed that there are many people, especially retired folks, who are always on the lookout for "something different" in terms of courses - some spend as much as one weekend a month doing some sort of course. That opens up a whole new audience for the IGKT to whom we can spread the word.

The problem with practical knots is the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". If an angler loses a fish then nothing is lost (apart from his or her dinner), but if a climber or sailor ties something wrong it could be a different matter.

Whatever workshops might be arranged, unless someone has done it before (I mean teaching, rather than knot tying) then small classes would be preferable to start with because you have to cater for the slowest learner. Once established and practised, teachers would have a better feel for how many a particular workshop could cope with - best to be conservative in one's ambitions to start with I think.

I hope that's a start on what could be an exciting discussion and concept.

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com

[Tom]

Do you know, while I have been teaching and leading workshops now for 15 years or so, I am still none-too-sure of the difference! I think such a hands-on subject as knotting is inevitably going to involve audience participation; slowest learners will always effect the pace; keener folk will always influence the programme; the teacher/leader will always be looked to for guidance.
What distinguishing features would you point to in the two approaches, that we might assess them?

[KnotMe]

for me, a workshop is about some hand-holding and a set block of time to work on a particular project.

i may have multiple books for learning the turk's head.  i may have more than one kit for learning the turk's head.  i may have more string than, well, probably not most of you, but certainly more than a run of the mill general craft store.  but i'd still take a workshop on turk's head knots because it would mean a set block of time devoted to the study on something in which i'm interested that won't come with "have you seen the remote?" or "she won't let me play the wii!" or etc. etc.  i'd also expect proven instructions that work even when i'm feeling dense and somewhat sleep deprived (eg. not my normally sharp as a tack self.    planning for that also goes well with students who might actually be somewhat dense or just learn in a different way than you expect.

workshops are also about (somewhat) instant gratification.  you may have plans to teach a large and fancy bellrope, but if this is a one-off class where you don't know what level of students you are dealing with, then sure, offer the bellrope class, but start them off with practice knots and also a small keyring bellrope that can be completely finished in class (sense of accomplishment, finished item that can be enjoyed or even shown off, yah!).

i was just taking a workshop today where a significant number of students got bogged down in the materials preparation for the project and ended up not even attempting the project.  the teacher would have had much happier students if he had pre-prepared the materials (which was clearly easy for him) and shown the class how to prepare their own, then moved on to the main event.  more satisfaction for all.  same information learned.

adults don't learn the way kids do in formal learning environments.  we, as adults, are generally much less interested in being graded (unless you're trying to get certified or something similar).  if you want to learn something in a workshop situation you are mostly interested in the focused company and someone making your life a little easier because you probably have access to the means to teach yourself if that's what you really wanted to do...

[Phil_The_Rope]

Hi Carol,

Couldn't agree more with your comments!

Be prepared, and have the students ready to start together. Very sad for teacher and students alike if people don't even attempt the project because they get bogged down or disillusioned with preparation. A lack of planning there.

Have a plan that's flexible, but make sure you have something they can finish - your keyring bellrope is a perfect example. If some folks are quicker than others, they can always make another keyring whilst you help the others catch up!

I'm not being selfish, but take the single video example ** on my web site (the first of many I hope) - certainly one of the diamond knots would cause problems to some, but they wouldn't necessarily need that one for a "starter" project. One could teach wall and crown knots quite easily (not used in the example on the site), and hopefully a Mathew Walker and Footrope Knot - if they struggle with these latter ones then it would be quite easy to teach a tight "wall and crown finishing knot" which could then have a tassle at the end. At least there would be a simple keyring consisting of wall/crown knots, the other knots become a bonus.

If you manage to teach a diamond knot or two, a Matthew Walker, a Footrope Knot, and perhaps a star knot (tricky for beginners), then students have the option to design their own landyards/bellropes/keyrings using a combination of what they've learned. Using wall and crown knots, they can decide how much braiding to do in between the more fancy knots. That allows the quicker learners to make longer items, without becoming bored. I remember how excited I was all those years ago when I learned to construct a braid of just repeated wall/crown knots, so I think we need to be mindful that a project doesn't need to be complicated for beginners to gain satisfaction.

I've seen some fabulous, intrictate, multi-strand bellropes that I have not yet aspired to at Guild meetings that have been made using the Marudai principle, and it would be brilliant if someone were to hold workshops on making those. Not something for beginners, though!

Yes, I'm talking about decorative stuff again (and ... only the narrow field of my particular expertise), so let's have some comments from you practical guys and gals, eh?

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com

** Apologies to those who struggle to get the video to load - I'd still like to hear from anyone who has problems (I've had a few positive comments, but if there are negative ones I'd like to receive them - no offence taken, I assure you).

[Fairlead]

Thank you all for your comments so far.
I am reading and picking up some salient points - one or two of which I will discuss when a few more people have had their two penny worth - and yes Phil I hope we get more than decorative work too!

Gordon

[Dan_Lehman]

Gordon, on practical knotting one might stagger the introduction of workshop
materials (i.e., cordage) so as to give emphsis to their effect on knotting.  Let
members begin with the easily knotted solid-braid nylon (or PP), say, and then
pass out some of the ubiquitous PP laid rope and have them attempt what they
thought they'd just learned, much to their likely frustration in getting some knots
to "stay"!  And build thus on that problem with both "back-up" knots and more
secure variations.  I think such an approach would heighten the appreciation
of such differences in materials & knots.

--dl*
====

[Phil_The_Rope]

Hi Guys and Gals!

I would be interested in learning a bit more about practical stuff - honest! Sure, I know how to tie a reef knot, a bowline etc., but it would be good to learn some more practical uses from the experts. I know the books teach a lot of this stuff, but a real-live person makes it so much more interesting. A real live person can also emphasize things much more memorably.

When I gained my nickname of "Phil The Rope" (you need to check the web site out for that story), I was on a dive boat - on one ocassion the skipper, having seen me spend hours tying decorative stuff, asked me if I could put an eye splice in a bit of rope for him. "No problem", said I. After all, splicing is splicing, isn't it, no matter what sort of rope is involved? WRONG!! I learned a very valuable lesson that day (and I'm sure the skipper did it deliberately to wind me up!) - the rope concerned was so tightly laid it only took 10 minutes before my thumbs were throbbing. I was hammering a Swedish fid between the lays and it was damned hard work making room to thread leads through!

So Dan - I have to agree that you're absolutely right about diffferent types of cord/rope behaving differently, as I learned the hard way! It's true for both decorative and practical applications.

If you've followed the thread "Help needed", started by Pete who requested help making a "spiral" sennit, you may have seen my comments about learning from diagrams and books - not everyone has Stuart Grainger's talents for drawing diagrams, so workshops are a great idea. Incidentally, how many folks had the pleasure of watching Charlie tie turks heads around his fingers? You don't get the same pleasure learning from a book!

Regards,

Phil (The Rope)
www.gr8-knots.com

[squarerigger]

Hi Phil, Dan, Gordon, Carol and all,

Here is the list of classes and contents that I teach in four classes that I run regularly, four times a year each:
Knotting, Ropework and Rigging - A Primer
USCG - Marlinespike Seamanship
Marlinespike for Everyone
Decorative Knots

1st class (for maintenance volunteers on board the brig Pilgrim - paying only) - 10 X 2-hours Class limit twelve knowledgeable sailors
Knotting - how it works, why you need to know and how to do it (the first fifteen knots)
Knotting - the other fifteen knots
Ropework - what you Mother never told you about seizing and whipping
Ropework - how to get hitched and spliced in a weekend (laid only)
Rigging - how the sky stops falling (how rigging works and why)
Rigging - for when you know everything (intricacies of rigging a brig)
Parctical Knotting - making a selvagee and taykle
Practical Knotting - tail splicing and a tail block
Decorative Knotting - making ditty bag lanyards
Decorative Knotting - mats (and that's all folks!)

2nd class (for would-be Captains paying for and taking their license instruction) 1 X 4 hours Class limit 16 experienced sailors
Marlinespike seamanship - general definitions, importance and the role of the rigger
Makeup, types, characteristics and care of lines (organic, inorganic and wire rope)
Relative strengths of lines and their wear characteristics
Coiling, flemishing, flaking/faking and handling line
Splices - what to use and when, advantages & disadvantages, including how to make them
Knots, bends and hitches - the bwl, French bwl, bwl on a bight, clove, square, sheet, becket, anchor, carrick, killick, timber, fig 8, stoppers, sheepshank, cleat hitch, blackwall, double sheet, double blackwall, marling, half hitch, overhand
Using a stopper, shrouds, stays, guys and their similarities, descriptions and differences
Worm, parcel & serve, whipping and seizing (common, westcountry, french spiral, palm & needle, flat s, round s, racking s)
Hardware - bitts, samson posts, blocks, sheaves, chocks (o & c) fairleads, bullions, bollards, cleats
Mooring and anchoring - rode, scope, chain, anchor types, bottoms, leading of lines
Purchases and tackles - make-up of blocks, types of blocks, how to make a tackle, purchase power of one-part, two-, three-, four-, five-, and six-part purchase to advantage and to disadvantage, calculation of power given friction at block and on line, calculation of support requirements

3rd class (paying customers who really want to know) 3 X 2 hours Class limit 10 adults
Knotting made easy - ten knots everyone should know (OH, HH, CH, MH, RH, bwl, Constric, catspaw, alpine butterfly, bwl on a bight)
Knots and splicing - five more knots and a laid eye splice (marling h, sheepshank, rosendahl, trucker's h, piling h)
Splicing, seizing and whipping - long and short splice in laid, flat, round and racking seizing, common, westcountry and palm w)

4th class (again paying customers and kids) 2 X 2 hours Class limit 5 pairs adult/kid
3-ply, 4-ply and 6-ply braid/plait, carrick bend weaves, ocean plait mats, prolong mats
Turk's head, coachwhipping and the Star Knot

They all are fully subscribed classes and most of them are there because a friend/prior customer told them about it.  Hope this helps you in working out your own schedules -  good luck! 

SR

[Dan_Lehman]

Ropework - what you Mother never told you about seizing and whipping
Ropework - how to get hitched and spliced in a weekend (laid only)

Standing in for DownUnder FCBrown, I'll echo one of his comments about some promo
of his demonstration and say "This makes it almost sound kinky!"
 

Parctical Knotting - making a selvagee and taykle

What language is this taught in?  (And is there a different dress code?)

Knots, bends and hitches - the bwl, French bwl, bwl on a bight, clove, square, sheet, becket, anchor, carrick, killick, timber,
 fig 8, stoppers, sheepshank, cleat hitch, blackwall, double sheet, double blackwall, marling, half hitch, overhand

How much confidence do you have in the blackwall h., in various materials?

--dl*
====

[oldpete]

If anyone ever starts a workshop within driving distance to me i would really love to attend

[PatDucey]

Where in the world are you Oldpete?  In the Seattle WA (USA) area, a few of local IGKT-PAB knot tyers get together about twice a year.  In the Los Angeles, California (USA), they get together once a month.  Squarerigger lives near LA, if you can make it to one of his classes, there is some good learnin' to be done.  There is an IGKT-NAB meeting coming up in Florida.  It's more a matter of finding out where knot tyers get together, and then stopping by to talk knots.

Patrick

[squarerigger]

Hi Dan,

A great chuckle and thank you!  Yes, I wish there were a spell-checker on here - I should of course have written practical not parctical - that was the word you were wondering about, n'est-ce-pas?  The dress code is optional, in line with the stuff about Mother...

You asked about the Blackwall hitch and I can tell you that I have great confidence in it - you do need to get the right size for the hook you are hitching around however.  If you try a 1/16-inch Kevlar on a 3/4-inch shank hook, it will not work, whether you double it or not.  OTOH, if you use a minimum 3/4-inch line on a 1/2-inch up to 7/8-inch shank hook, it should hold pretty well.  Having said that, I have only tried with some sizes and not all - we use the single B. hitch on Pilgrim to hoist an 800-pound anchor on a 3/4-inch line with a 5/8-inch shank hook and it has never ever slipped (the line is polypro - Roblon)  We once had the unfortunate instance of someone getting windlass grease on the line and we had to use a double B. hitch, but even then it worked just fine, again with no slippage.  It all comes form picking the right match between hook and line - pretty much all one could say for most fishing, eh?

SR

[DerekSmith]

I would have to ask if it is your intention to teach people to knot by rote or if your intention is to teach people to understand the use of cordage.

If your intention is the latter, then for me the Blackwall (ABoK #1601), or more correctly the great family of Single, Simple, Slippery hitches covered by ABoK from #1594 to #1623 would almost certainly feature at the very top of my list of knots to explain the way knots work and perhaps more importantly - how they fail.

What things would you need to teach?

Memorability? What could be more memorable than the simplest of all possible knots?  If it is memorable and simple, then one would hope for a high degree of consistency in tying, but perhaps that is asking just a little bit too much of the human race as the following site on how to make the Blackwall demonstrates:-

http://www.knotpro.com/members/boating_knot_black_wall_hitch.htm  (I wonder how good the rest of the CD is for $20 ??)

Knots weaken rope?  This hitch demonstrates that you do not need a big knot to have a strong knot, indeed this simple tuck is probably the strongest knot of all and the perfect opportunity to explain the friction law and the value of the round turn.

Reliability?  This little hitch offers insight into a number of aspects of reliability.  So long as the frictional multiplier remains above 1, then no matter what the load, this hitch cannot slip because the greater the load, the greater the grip of the anchor tail, so the greater a load can be held, right up to the strength of the rope itself.  BUT, if the factor is already near one and something happens to reduce it below one, then the hitch will fail in a second.  The biggest concern we should have is that we never have any means of knowing just how close that factor is to one and if it is changing, then in which direction?  Roo covers the law well here http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/friction.html  Then of course, there is intrinsic stability and resistance to shaking or slack; this hitch is about as bad as it gets on this score so it is a good example of strength over stability.

So, yes I would definitely have the Blackwall high on my list of example knots.  Besides, without it (or at least a very close cousin) how on earth would I hold up my tomatoes??

PS, Lindsey, if you were to use FIrefox as your browser, you would get a spell checker built in for free !!

Derek

[oldpete]

OldPete lives in Gloucestershire in the U.K. (you know that tiny island on the edge of the atlantic.)