Author Topic: Video on the web  (Read 30399 times)

Phil_The_Rope

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2008, 07:36:30 PM »
Hi Derek,

Point taken!

I understand, as you say, that the technology is now available to many more people these days. However, how many people will put aside a year of their life to produce something like Richard's "Knots Made Easy" video? Additionally, as I know from my own experience, having the technology doesn't mean they can use it without lots of training. For example, how long did it take me to produce my web site video? And that was with loads of help and input from you kind folks! Incidentally, I will be removing those videos on my site with a view to marketing KME on DVD instead. I can at least say that I know how to use the technology because I've spent the last 2-4 years (on and off) learning how to do so.

Yep, there are some interesting videos on YouTube etc., but the quality willl not match a TV quality DVD. Our plan is to produce something of much higher quality than the free stuff. Whether we succeed or not, only time will tell!

As for the IGKT - it would be great if they would support something like this (in fact, I believe Des was marketing Richard's video at one time, albeit it from a business point of view with Footrope Knots rather than for the Guild).

Thanks, as always, for your input - much appreciated.

Regards,

Phil

DerekSmith

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2008, 11:05:40 PM »
Hi Phil,

It was fun working with you on the tutorial bell rope videos, the time and professional advice was given freely even though you openly stated that you might at some point make a sale out of the DVD.  It was great to get a gratis copy of the final DVD, especially as again it was not expected.  You are a great bloke, and I would probably have stumped up for a copy of the 'Knots Made Easy' Video when it eventually came out on the basis that you deserve support from the team here on the Forum.

But Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video and his warning in triplicate not to infringe on his copyright, well that is altogether a different matter.  Not really what you might call good PR now is it ??

I earn my living by creating copyright protected products and I know how important it is for people to respect that taking copyrighted material is theft.

So although I take copyright ownership very seriously, I don't go to my potential customers and do a Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video on them.  I really don't think that would do my marketing strategy any good at all.

I did not appreciate the outburst and I so did not appreciate the outburst in triplicate that I can definately indicate to Richard M Phelan. Producer of Knots Made Easy Video that he can now strike one sale off before the job even hits the cutting floor.

If his videoing style is any match for his Forum style, I doubt I will be missing much.

Good Luck Phil - you might be needing it.

Derek

Phil_The_Rope

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2008, 04:58:17 PM »
Hi Derek.

I've deliberated for some time as to whether I should continue this post, as I know it might just pour salt on old wounds, and I don't wish to start (or encourage!) arguments. I've been browsing, and occassionally contributing to, the forums in recent weeks, so I know how easy it is to hit the wrong nerve. For example, I could not believe how using the expression "Forum User", rather than "Forum Contributor", could cause so much friction - life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!

Anyway, I digress ...

Before I get to the main point (bear with me), I would like to say that both Richard and I give up our time freely (as most IGKT folks do) to help others learn knotting techniques. Yes, Richard and I are pursuing a commercial venture that could not have been attempted without considerable help from Guild members (and that help is acknowledged gratefully at the BEGINNING of the DVD, before the lessons start), but I repeat (see other posts) that most commercial ventures would not be possible without the help and advice from others anyway (whether that be knotting, or anything else for that matter).

I would like to add something here in Richard's defence ...

Richard's response may have been less than subtle, but please put it in context - considerable expense was incurred in producing the original video, and yet more expense was incurred in producing the DVD, not least my own personal sacrifice in giving up a lucrative career to market this (along with one or two other speculative ventures).

There are various rumours and stories about "Knots Made Easy", and what happened to the old VHS stock and copyright, so let me put the record straight -

Old VHS stock was sold off cheaply, but the copyright was NOT sold, and Richard has been plagued with attempts to infringe this copyright. Personally, I understand his frustration at trying to keep control. Yes, some people have, quite innocently and with good intent, offered to "convert" the VHS to DVD (ok, only a straight copy, rather than the new menu driven version, but that does ultimately threaten the copyright - one "innocent" copy could actually result in millions of illicit copies). I did send a few personal messages to members to explain this.

I'm mindful of Europa Chang's fabulous agreement with Schaake and Turner to distribute "The Braider" on CD, with profits going to a cancer charity - I'll bet there are now more illicit copies in circulation then there are legitimate copies! It only takes one innocent, helpful person to give a copy in good faith to someone without a conscience, and the charity suffers.

Please, PLEASE, Derek - don't take this thread the wrong way. I am simply trying to explain the background of this copyright issue. I am a really easy going chap, and I know you and I have both helped each other in the past (and long may that arrangement continue), but I support Richard's warning (even if I might have worded it differently).

Phil
http://www.knotsdvd.com
http://www.gr8-knots.com



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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2008, 08:49:55 PM »
Hi Phil,
Has Richard Phelan joined the Guild again recently?  If he is perporting to me a member I don't see his name in the Membership Handbook.  And some of us have been Guild members long enough to remember the way he 'Used' the IGKT and its members to market 'Knots Made Easy' then left.
I too will not be buying the DVD

Gordon

Phil_The_Rope

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2008, 12:36:08 AM »
Whoa ... calm down Gordon!

I apologize for the length of this reply, but I hope those who visit will actually read it through.

Things have got awfully personal all of a sudden!

Yes, Richard has rejoined the Guild after being out of the country for a while - I encouraged him to do so. I suppose Richard might reply, but I am replying on my own behalf, because I feel offended and disappointed on a personal level.

"Using the Guild"? OK, I'll put my hand up to that accusation too, as should we all if we're honest - that was the whole point of joining wasn't it, i.e. to learn from others? There is nothing dishonest or unethical about that, surely?

All those members who have written so many fabulous books on knotting - did they "use" the Guild and get criticised publicly for doing so? I never thought they should be criticised, and I never will.

Should we pillory those IGKT members (and non members too I suppose) whose links are on the IGKT site, advertising their work over the internet? Should we demand from them an explanation as to where they acquired the knowledge to be able to produce their work to sell, and condemn them if they admit to learning from others?

I thought the point of the IGKT was to promote knot tying? The way we do that is by sharing information and knowledge, and normally we do that
very willingly. Sure, I've learned plenty myself, thanks to my friends (and I have made some GREAT friends) in the IGKT, but I'd like to think I've also shared my knowledge and experience with others too. Some folks do make a profit from imparting knowledge, whether that be through books, videos, demonstrations, talks or whatever, but when one considers the time we spend "teaching" or talking to others it often doesn't amount to much more than a few pence per hour.

If I am able to impart sufficient knowledge to anyone who subsequently manages to sell work based on my teaching then I'd personally be
delighted. At least it would mean the profile of knotting is increased.

I held a workshop on decorative knotting for a local scout group only two nights ago - I did NOT charge for my time, I gave away several pounds worth of cord, and made a big effort to promote the Guild. YES, I did publicise the DVD too, but I didn't sell a single one (although I hope I might in weeks to come, and I am NOT ashamed of that). That has not stopped me accepting an invitation to hold another workshop, or accept an invitation from one of the scout's mothers who was present to hold a similar workshop for her church's youth section. Today, I spent a couple of hours visiting one of those scouts (mother present, incidentally) to further encourage him - I lent him several books, my favourite being Stuart Grainger's "Knotcraft" (which is brilliant in my opinion) - perhaps I should have interrogated Stuart first to make sure he hadn't learned anything from a fellow Guild member, as he did make money out of his book (he certainly deserved to)?

Personally, I am proud to have "used" the IGKT, if that's your perception, to better myself, and will continue to promote and encourage knot tying, whether it's for profit or not.

If you read from the beginning of this topic (yes, I know there are currently 5 pages worth - sorry), you'll see the rapport and banter that like minded people engaged in when I was trying to put together the streaming video for my web site - this, for me, epitomizes the nature of free-giving, helpful, fellow Guild members. It was good fun, and although I was the one who initially asked for help you'll see that others were pleased to learn too.

Don't I recall that the original VHS version of "Knots Made Easy" used to be advertised in "Knotting Matters"? Will we reach the stage where the committee starts profiling and interrogating members to establish whether they "fit in" with acceptable commercial parameters? Will there be an "elite" established who are allowed to plagiarize the work of others?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't I also recall a conversation where you told me that you actually bought a copy of the original VHS video of "Knots Made Easy"? Presumably, you're happy to play that?

The implication in your post suggests that people like me are only in the Guild to profit from the expertise of others. I am offended by that implication, and would hope that those who know me would defend me - I AM easy going, love to learn from others, and moreover I enjoy passing on what little knowledge I have to others.

I am very disappointed that my explanation about the copyright issue has resulted in a character assassination.

I now wonder if I'm perceived as a villain in the eyes of the IGKT? I think it is extremely unfair to be condemned as such, and I sincerely hope others will contribute to this thread so that I know whether I've suddenly lost a whole bunch of friends. If I am to be condemned, then there is a whole bunch of people behind me who will suffer the same fate.

Phil Cook

skyout

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2008, 02:40:38 AM »
I would like to apologize to Phil for the post below as I felt slighted from what was my own misunderstanding. I will try very hard not to let this occur again as I now know there are some big differences in American and British English. I really hope you can find it in yourself to accept my apology for being daft of the differences.


... I could not believe how using the expression "Forum User", rather than "Forum Contributor", could cause so much friction - life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!

Anyway, I digress ...
I don't know you other than by what I read and that you are in the UK. I don't think it is trivial to insult anyone anywhere and here in America if you call someone a "User" it is insulting. I was not insulted by Mel, Webmistress, using the term as I'm sure it was not done in a malicious way. I thought my attempt at humor would have gotten that across while at the same time prevent her from potentially insulting someone else but evidently the different language meanings didn't ring a bell with you, even though Derek, also in the UK, got it I'm sure, as evidenced by our "kidding" each other about new handles. So I'll spell it out for you. I am a member of the IGKT Forum.

So maybe you did digress, but thanks for trying to throw me under the bus; was that just to get some heat off of you or did you really not understand my other post? I think you knew exactly what I was inferring to in my other posts because with just one member using the term "used", you immediately went off on a 17 paragraph defense strategy. Hardly the same BS theory "life's too short, I'm afraid, to worry about such trivia in my opinion!" you spouted about my post, now is it? Do you see any similarities here; user - used??? I'm sure others could punch holes in your defensive comments but as this all occurred before I joined, I'll just stick with your double talking comments concerning me.  Curious minds may want to know but I really don't care because I am done with explaining myself on this issue.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 04:17:07 AM by skyout »

Phil_The_Rope

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2008, 09:51:46 AM »
Whoops!

I obviously didn't understand, and didn't realise "user" was an insult - my apologies.

Actually, the 17 paragraph reply was in response to Gordon's comments and absolutley nothing to do with your original request about not being referred to as a user - I was trying to use the reference to your post almost as a throw away comment. Again, my sincere apologies - I did not mean to offend you.

Phil

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2008, 07:07:22 PM »
I've followed this exchange with passing interest (mainly because I bought the excellent DVD). I joined the guild well over 20 years ago having found its existence in a paperback by Geoffrey Budworth. I doubt if anyone has written more books than Geoffrey and although it's a long time since we last met a more helpful individual I have yet to meet. Some members do try and make money and even a living from knotting - good luck to them! If they join the the Guild I hope they'll help the rest of us who would like to learn - and if that means paying a few pounds (dollars euros or whatever) for a book or DVD then why not? This is not a secret society where we meet behind closed doors and only admit the chosen few - far from it I hope. Nor are we a trade association protecting our members interests but we are a charity with a clear aim of providing education. So should our schools and colleges (paid for out of our taxes) avoid teaching people in case they make a living at it? I sincerely hope not for all our sakes. So come on people let's take knotting forward and congratulate those who make a success of it - in whatever way. And if this forum helps us achieve our charitable aim then our membership fees are being well spent.

DerekSmith

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Re: Video on the web
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2008, 04:08:21 PM »
Hi Phil,

Once again I seem to have stirred up the dunny pot and caused a stink.  Richards ticking off in triplicate got right up my nose and in a blink I concluded that I did not like the bloke, then straight away put fingers to the keyboard.  Sorry  --  I should have known better.

Anyways, let me come clean and stand right up alongside you and state that I also 'use' the IGKT - unashamedly even.

Whenever I give a talk or a lesson about knots I always make the statement that I am a member of the IGKT because, apart from advertising the Guild, it also adds credence to my sorry presentation.  Likewise, if I ever manage to find a group with enough dosh to pay me for my time, I will again unashamedly utilise the fact that I am a member of the IGKT to help them feel that they are getting more for their money than they really are (The Dunny Man on the subject of 'Knots and Cord' can be quite boring you know).

So, 'using' the IGKT for Kudos, credence or profit - Here Here - I am all in support of it, anything that spreads the word that the IGKT is the home of all serious knotters and things knottilatious is fine by me (I keep trying to get a group of bondage fettishists to invite me along to a session to give them some tips, but no luck so far, even with my 'Member of the IGKT' credential proudly sported).

So please do not go getting wound up and all hot under the collar my friend, about something which is nothing and which I caused by getting out of my pram over Richard's turn of phrase.  Me, I try to follow the first class example set by one of the Guild founders - Geoffrey Budworth - promote and support the Guild to exhaustion and make some income out the the field if at all possible - cheers Geoffrey.

Derek