Author Topic: Video on the web  (Read 30608 times)

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2007, 01:06:36 AM »
Ahoy Square Rigger!

Motivation? Well, I produce video for a living (well, sort of ...), but as for "making sales" - it's a nice idea, but I'm not convinced that it would work, although I may try to come up with something.

Tying decorative knots is great fun, but the time involved doesn't generally make it pay. Having said that, there is perhaps some income to be earned from teaching, which is what I'm looking at at the moment, and the internet is an avenue I'm trying out. I do accept that there are many folks who produce works of art I can only dream of achieving, but I'll stick to the relatively simple stuff (it's very subjective, isn't it?).

You mention the colour of the cord and how bright the yellow is - yep, I agree, but it's very difficult putting together something for the web that works. Contrast between the knot and the background is critical, but the main issue is "quality versus file size" when it comes to producing streaming video for the internet, and whatever colour (sorry - color, 'cos North Americans can't spell!) is used, resolution of streaming video will never be as clear as a TV quality DVD. I do intend to produce a "Projects" DVD, which I'll send out for free to those in the IGKT who are interested, as long as there aren't too many (cost is an issue).

These web site videos are very much a trial to see if they work, and I'm very grateful to you guys and gals for your opinions - if the consencus is "They're crap" then I'll drop the idea, but it does seem as though I'm on the right track. The main thought behind web site videos is that they will help students "relive" classroom lessons - of course, if folks can folllow the videos without any classroom teaching then it's a bonus.

Finallly ... I'm glad to see you and Derek debating the practical uses of the MWK! I generally avoid discussions about practical uses of knots, their strengths and stabilities etc. ... if one of my bellropes falls apart, who cares? If my invention of a "Phil's graunch knot" causes someone to fall off a mountain, that would be a different matter ...

I'll stick to decorative stuff - it's safer!

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com


squarerigger

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
  • IGKTPAB Immediate Past President
    • The Knot Guy
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2007, 04:47:20 AM »
Hi Derek,

Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but with rigging it just was not all done as per OSHA standards ;) !!

As far as I know, and the folks at Chatham and at Portsmouth will fill in for me here please, the over two crown knot was in use at the time of Trafalgar (Victory was built in 1759) and that seemed to go rather well prior to the MWK.  Prior to that I have no firm notion, except to say that I suspect splicing was possibly used or maybe even a stoutly assembled Stevedore knot?  In either event, it was necessary to make the deadeye hole at which it was stopped as small as possible, relative to the line's diameter (fitted with a dumb-sheave if it were spliced I imagine or perhaps a heart block deadeye?).  Anything tied in such a fitting would then have a very difficult time being pulled through the deadeye itself.  Some arab dhows are fitted today with naught but a kind of turn with half hitches and they seem to stand up quite well though!  Treespyder should maybe throw in a comment or two here about the relative force at the end of a line reeved through a deadeye - should not be above a few hundred pounds methinks?  Eight shrouds to the side for the main of a 3-decker, each of 2 3/4 inches circumference or 7/8 inches diameter, capable of each shroud resisting several thousand pounds, rove in a five-part falls to advantage with perhaps an allowance of say 20% friction added for the deadeye "sheaves" should reduce the load on that stopper knot to around a few hundred pounds only.  Perhaps an exercise for the really keen engineering types who desire absolute precision in these things rather than a seaman's eye, say.

Phil - to your comment about the color (yes, I knew I would get some ribbing about that, but recall that I am British by birth and upbringing for thrity-five years, and considered by some as bilingual in English from England & America both, and with a touch of Aussie, Irish, Welsh and South African thrown in for good measure, perhaps even gifted in that respect!?) it serves me nor you nor the kind readers of the pages here any good purpose to debate the matter ad nauseam; suffice it to say that I felt I was nit-picking and that I did not intend for my comment to be taken too seriously unless it were something readily remedied.  Nothing stands up to the glare of video lighting very well, so why not just enjoy it the way it is?  I have found that blue with some tracer line in it against a stark white background works quite well though (hint, hint).

You are certainly correct about the return on investment - why if it were not for good folks like you the world of knotting would get no further ahead than a few dry books on library shelves or perhaps still photographs on a few web-pages, with artists renditions thrown in for good measure.  Strength to you my friend!  Thank you for performing an inestimable service.

Yours in forward movement,   ;D

Squarerigger

DerekSmith

  • IGKT Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1521
  • Knot Botherer
    • ALbion Alliance
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2007, 08:37:34 AM »
Phil,

Without question, video is the medium for teaching knot tying and I am certain that before long all knots will be presented on the internet with video tying instructions.

You might be interested in a very nice TH tutorial by Tim Allwine over at KHWW

http://www.khww.net/readarticle.php?article_id=73

He uses Quicktime and the video is very clear.

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2007, 08:58:33 PM »
Hi Folks!

The next installment is on the site - the first of two diamond knots on the bellrope/landyard. This was a particularly tricky one to film, and I know it could be improved.

I'll finish this project, and then have a think about how to improve the presentation of future ones. Perhaps this one is a little ambitious, but I'll see it through. The next little video project should be a little simpler, something maybe along the lines of a monkey's fist keyring?

Before the next project, I'll consider better cord to demonstrate with (as per Square Rigger's suggestion), and think about different video formats. Having said that, I did try to watch the Quick Time movie Derek gave a link to, but couldn't watch it - a message about "missing software" appeared, but I've checked my Quick Time Player and it's up to date. I certainly could improve the resolution/clarity of my videos, but the file sizes would become prohibitive (especially for the longer clips like "Part 6 - First Diamond Knot 1, part 4", which runs to over 4 minutes).

If it's any consolation, the next knot on the landyard is a simpler diamond knot!

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com

DerekSmith

  • IGKT Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1521
  • Knot Botherer
    • ALbion Alliance
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2007, 01:35:21 PM »
Hi Phill,

Thanks for the next knot videos.  I think I have spotted two more issues you might want to consider.

First, the video is filmed from a position in front and above you, not from your vantage point as the tyer.  Consequently, the student cannot see what the tyer sees.  The video link I posted earlier is filmed from the shoulder of the tyer and so is virtually what the tyer sees as he is tying the knot, so it is depicting what the student should be seing as they follow the lesson.

Second is an issue of scale.  In the TH video from KHWW, the knot takes up over half of the screen area, whereas in your videos the knot rarely takes up more than ca 20% of the screen.  This means that the details of cord position and route are easily missed because the cord is probably no more than 1% or 2% of the screen wide  -- we have plenty of arms and background and not enough knot.

On a technical note re compression.  The compression algorithms do not know which part of the image is important, so they attempt to make just a good a job of reproducing the background as they do for the knot and your hands.  However, as the background is not important, you can significantly increase the compression (and therefore need a lower level of compression for the same file size) if the background is virtually a single colour (i.e very dark shadow).  You can best achieve this by filming with your hands and knot illuminated (lamp or window) in a non illuminated room, with a dark shadow area behind your hands (i.e. no table).  Don't let your hands cast a shadow into the background otherwise the compression algorithm has to start work again recording the shaded background.

BTW I really must agree with the comments re that yellow cord, the camera really does not like rendering subtleties of yellow shading.  Red is another colour which often gives problems to digital imaging.  White (i.e. white and shades of grey) is good for the sensors to record the gentle shading of the curve of cords.

I cannot tie the diamond yet, but there are only so many variations of what you might be explaining, so I hope to be there soon.

Derek

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2007, 02:07:20 PM »
Hi Derek,

Thanks for that. I must confess I was a little lazy in setting things up - I had a blue board, so used yellow cord for the contrast.

I experimented with different filming positions, and found one that suited me - unfortunately, as you say, it may not suit the viewer, and that becomes so much more apparent when things start getting tricky!  I agree that I really do need to be filming over the shoulder. The position I chose actually made the viewing screen of the camera visible to me, so I could see what was being filmed. With a little effort and experimentation I should be able to set things up better.

Most of the filming I do does not involve close-up work, so I've not needed to think about some of these things before.

I'm particularly grateful to you and Square Rigger for your comments and suggestions - I'll get there eventually!

PLEASE do let me know if and when you get that diamond knot tied!

Regards,

Phil


DerekSmith

  • IGKT Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1521
  • Knot Botherer
    • ALbion Alliance
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2007, 05:07:01 PM »
Well, I THINK if followed - "fold it down and tuck it through its neighbor"  at least the shape I had at the end of this looke the same as yours in the video.

But when it came to "Over two, under two", I was just following your words, the video just did not show me the lead and the two lines I was to go over and the two lines I was to go under.  First guess and I finished up with a nice little 'doubled diamond'.  It looked good but in yours all the leads were single.  Second guess as to which two over and which two under and I have a nice herringbone effect.

Now all I need is a clear closeup of the top, bottom and the side so that I can confirm that my guess was right.

Derek

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2007, 05:27:00 PM »
Hi Derek.

You're a man of infinite patience by the sound of things! If you'll bear with me, I think I'll redo some of the filming and production to try and make things clearer. There is certainly a herringbone look to the knot. Send me a private message or email with your postal address and I'll send you the finished article for reference - I know ultimately that the video needs to do the job on its own, but I think the physical article will help for now.

In reality, you're probably rather frustrated, but I'll get there even if it takes a few iterations.  Please bear with me.

Thanks!

Phil

Tom

  • Trusted New Poster
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2007, 08:30:26 PM »
Hooray for Phil! My first Diamond - though I needed a couple of tries after heading for the wrong loop at "fold it down and tuck it through its neighbour". "Over two, under two" was also confusing (couldn't see the detail) as Derek has said above. The MTW was the simplest explanation I have seen - again, thanks. You have a lovely, gentle, John Noakes-style of presentation that I found very engaging.
A slight niggle: all the Diamond pages are called 'Part 2' when opened, so the order gets confused if one opens them all up to get them loading in the background. And (as above) a contrasting thread through the cord would be an asset.
Can't wait for the Foot Knot! Can't wait for the DVD!

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2007, 09:46:23 PM »
Fantastic!

I'm really pleased you managed to follow my ramblings! It's obvious that I could explain and film things better, but with all the comments from you guys, along with your patience, I will make things easier next time around - honest. Thanks for telling me about the "part 2" confusion too - I hadn't noticed that, so something else I can look into.

By the way, I think you're the Tom who had the bike accident? If so, my thoughts are with you, and please accept my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I was, for some time, involved with advanced motorcycle training, so I've see the best and worst of the biking world - maybe your accident will enlist at least IGKT members into the "Think Bike" brigade? This probably isn't the forum to discuss bikes, but feel free to send me an email or private message, and we can talk bikes if you're still enthusiastic about two wheels.

DVD - when I get around to this, it will have menus, and the quality (i.e. resolution) of the video will be better, as the constraints of publishing video on the internet won't apply to a DVD.

It's interesting, and encouraging, that Derek thinks there's a place for the videoing of practical knots too. This is definitely one area where I would need to enlist the help of IGKT members - whilst there are many "normal" knots I can tie, I definitely would need to be very careful about advice on their uses, stability, strength, applications etc. There's maybe even a need to film the tying of knots "in situ" to make them interesting - any volunteers?  I recall teaching novice divers a few knots underwater, but I don't have film of that! Geoff "Cousteau" Wyatt will probably understand why I used a "buddy line" with a noose at each end when diving with novices? Anyway, I digress ...

Although I've made a few errors of judgement with regards to the set-up, the filming and the presentation of my stuff so far, it's evident from the interest shown that it's worthwhile pursuing.

Thanks!

Regards,

Phil

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2007, 09:55:03 PM »
Next iteration ...

I've refilmed and published the previuosly published parts of the video landyard project, and added the second diamond knot.

I think it's clearer now, although I still accept that the resolution is not perfect - it's gonna be a lot easier putting stuff on DVD 'cos I won't have to worry about quality settings in order to keep file size down.

For the next week or so I'm going to be pretty tied up (ha, ha ...), but I will try to publish the final footrope knot video to round off the project tomorrow.

Regards,

Phil
www.gr8-knots.com

turks head 54

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 85
    • Banner Creek Blog
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2007, 01:47:10 AM »
On my computer the video loaded up plenty fast.

TH54

aknotter

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 198
  • Member IGKT-PAB since 2000
    • Pacific Americas Branch of the IGKT
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2007, 02:23:11 AM »
Hi Phil,
   
Firstly, let me say that I think your instructions are great! Secondly, may I pass the link to these instructions on to a friend? She teaches autistic children and has asked for instructions on tying a star knot as one of her students shows an interest in knots. I think the star is a little too advanced, but these instructions are presented so well that I'd like her to see them. (I myself, may even be able to tie the Matthew Walker using your instructions?????). So, when (if) I receive your permission, I will pass your link on to her. You have produced great video, I think.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 02:24:04 AM by aknotter »
Jimmy R Williams - IGKTPAB Secretary/Treasurer
Site: IGKTPAB.ORG Email: IGKTPAB@GMAIL.COM
Event Pix: PICASAWEB.GOOGLE.COM/IGKTPAB

Phil_The_Rope

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
  • Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
    • www.gr8-knots.com
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2007, 09:39:30 AM »
Sure thing - pass the link on to anyone!

I hope it's of some use and interest to your friend.

Regards,

Phil

oldpete

  • Trusted New Poster
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Video on the web
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2007, 05:01:53 PM »
I found the video very well presented and very helpful, it is always nice to see others tying knots, or was that getting 'tied in knots'.
Some time ago I bought a copy of Richard Phelan's video, 'Knots made Easy'
What the knotting world need is something simular but now in DVD form. Just an idea for anyone capable of producing one, I for one would be in the queue to buy a copy.