Author Topic: snuggle hitch  (Read 10105 times)

the_man

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snuggle hitch
« on: August 19, 2005, 03:09:16 PM »
I have a question about the correct way to tie the snuggle hitch.

I am using Geoffrey Budworth and Jason Dalton's "The Book of Knots." On page 216 and 217 they describe and show how to tie the snuggle hitch. Unfortunately, two of the pictures differ from one another at one point.

The discrepancy occurs at the end. After going "over and down behind the rail once more," the finish is in one picture to come "back up on the right-hand side, take the working end OVER the first crossing point and tuck it under the second knot part (5). Work the knot snug and tight (6)."

The last picture, however, if described in words would read "under" for the capitalized "over" in the quote above.

Is the correct way to finish "over then under" or "under and under"? Is there anyone that knows?

Dan_Lehman

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2005, 09:32:52 AM »
Quote
I have a question about the correct way to tie the snuggle hitch.

Before or aside from addressing the question of correctness, which version
do you prefer, and why?  And for what do you envision using this hitch?!

--dl*
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nautile

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Re:MATH THEORY OF HITCHES_ snuggle hitch
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2005, 11:47:30 AM »
Hello
You might want to go to :
http://www.math.ucla.edu/~radko/191.1.05w/matt.pdf
fig 12 in particular.
Regards.


Brian_Grimley

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2005, 05:07:41 PM »
Unfortunately, I have not seen Geoffrey Budworth and Jason Dalton's "The Book of Knots".  

However, Geoffrey Budworth shows the Snuggle Hitch in his "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots and Ropework" (1999) and the hitch ends Over-Under.

However, as nautile points out, Matt Krauel, in fig. 12, illustrates the Snuggle Hitch ending Under-Under and Matt Krauel references Budworth, G. "Rope and Knotwork" (2003).

Budworth, in "... Knots and Ropework" (1999) credits Owen K. Nuttall with the knot and says the knot "came to notice in 1987". Budworth does not reference his source.  Perhaps the "Snuggle Hitch" was published in "Knotting Matters" in 1987.  Can anyone check? I would be interested to know what Owen K. Nuttall said about this knot (perhaps he showed two forms).

TIA - Brian.

Ps. I noticed in ".... Knots and Ropework" (1999), step 5 and its photo is the "Snuggle Knot" (Over-Under). Step 6 (added security) and its photograph really follow step 4, NOT step 5 (as shown). In addition, the step 6 photograph is the mirror image of the "added security Snuggle Hitch" resulting from following the steps illustrated.  -BG

the_man

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2005, 05:22:02 AM »
Thank you for all your responses.

Yes, Dan, there are at least two issues here--the "correct" way and the "best" way (at least for any particular implementation).

Knowing as little as I do about knot-tying, correctness has a certain allure. If I were to teach this knot to someone else, it would be nice to know which of the two ways carries the label "snuggle hitch."

Thank you nautile for the link. I only skimmed the article besides looking at the drawing of the snuggle hitch, but it did help me to understand the mechanics of hitches a little better nonetheless.

Perhaps, Brian, the discrepancy is wider than just my little book--that is helpful information. "The Book of Knots" is a beginner book, possibly a great condensation of Budworth's other works. I would defer to any other book for the definitive way to tie a knot.

It seems to me, with my very little knowledge, that ending under, under would be the more secure knot--the greater contact surface area would increase the friction, would it not? Over, under would, I think, be easier to tie.

Again, thank you for your comments.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2005, 08:41:23 AM »
Quote

Knowing as little as I do about knot-tying, correctness has a certain allure. If I were to teach this knot to someone else, it would be nice to know which of the two ways carries the label "snuggle hitch."

But by that time--well, even at THIS time--both versions carry that label
(and by the same source author!), alas.
In this particular knot case, we can find the origin:  KM#18p17 (Winter 1987),
as part of "Further New Twists" by Owen Nuttall.  The knot is finished Over-Under.
Quote

Perhaps, Brian, the discrepancy is wider than just my little book--that is helpful information. "The Book of Knots" is a beginner book, possibly a great condensation of Budworth's other works.

I don't see the knot in a few other books I have access to; it occurs in several
Budworth books, and in at least three is tied "correctly"; note that your book
has it so, but for one conflicting image--which conflicts with the associated text.
Quote

It seems to me, with my very little knowledge, that ending under, under would be the more secure knot--the greater contact surface area would increase the friction, would it not? Over, under would, I think, be easier to tie.

You should play around with some materials and check this.  Actually, part of
Owen's idea was easy UNtying--the tug on the end pulling out material of the
SPart and loosening the knot (to free the end).  But also the Over-Under
finish puts more pressure on the part gone Over which you see itself goes
Over the Spart and so better secures it.  Also, the Over of the end prevents
the part gone Over from shifting position, which it otherwise can do, with
loosening effects on the knot (this behavior seen in compressible rope such
as hollow braid).  And in firm laid PP rope,  I see that the Under-Under doesn't
get much pressure on the end for the first Under, as that part going Over it
has also gone Over another part, and hardly contacts the end--which in any
case will be strongly nipped by the (fully loaded) SPart.
.:.  Nuttall seems to have made the better selection.
A problem with this hitch is that it cannot be easily tied tight, but must be
formed and then worked tight.

--dl*
====
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 12:02:47 AM by Dan_Lehman »

Brian_Grimley

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2005, 03:44:01 PM »
Dan,

Thank you for finding the source of the "Snuggle Hitch" and confirming the Over-Under. I especially liked learning that part of Owen Nuttall's idea was ease of untying! I must look at this hitch again from that point of view.

Cheers - Brian.


the_man

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Re: snuggle hitch
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2005, 12:14:11 AM »
Thanks Dan!