Author Topic: Knot book  (Read 9228 times)

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Knot book
« on: February 14, 2007, 05:34:24 AM »
I am wanting to purchase a book of knots. I want to get everyones opinion on the best book. I will help narrow it down. I want it to have hitches,bends,loops and other useful knots. No decorative stuff.  It needs to have very clear, full color pictures with step by step instructions.  Here is two choices I have come up with so far.



Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: Knot book
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 06:28:38 AM »
well, I couldn't pass up the great price so I bought both of those shown above. Only $42.00 for both. :)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 02:26:59 AM by Mike »

ambiguous

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Knot book
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 07:01:48 AM »
Just to let you know.

The top picture, Geo. Budworth's: Encyclopedia of Knots has a mistake in the words and the pictures when you are tying the Long Mat. It won't matter too much if you already know how to tie it.  Otherwise it is a pretty good book.

As far as advice for you in purchasing books....I haven't a clue as far as recommendations. I purchase books if they have knots that I have not seen yet.  Most books are clear.

Liked the Morrow Book of Knots though on the Square Mat his hand obscures a crucial step making the knot a puzzle to figure out.

ABOK aka The Ashley Book of Knots (revised), I have found that 95% of the knots that I have tried to tie illustrated clear enough. I would tend to think that any more recent publications would be clearer with the advent of color photography.

Enjoy
What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3959
Re: Knot book
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 08:23:09 AM »
well, I could pass up the great price so I bought both of those showm above. Only $42.00 for both. :)
Hmmmm, having gotten one of them for about $5 in some discount section,
I'm wondering at your bargain.  And esp. as I think you'll find that you've
bought two versions of one book that the $42 will seem ever more dear.

Quote
It needs to have very clear, full color pictures
Do you try to match the colors along with the shapes in tying?   :D

While colors can be very helpful, using the patterned kernmantle ropes
often seen in these books can be akin to camouflage; and lighting in
any case can aid or hinder good recognition of rope-strand position
("strand" in the "part-of-knot/section" sense, not "part-of-rope" sense
--another knotting nomenclature issue).  Also, it is sadly often the case
that both the choice of cordage and the setting that gets used in these
glossy, colorful "knots" books are inappropriate for the presented knot!
But accuracy not the selling point here.

--dl*
====

Fairlead

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 334
  • IGKT Member since 1984 - IGKT Librarian
Re: Knot book
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2007, 08:50:06 PM »
Mike,
Sounds like you need what I call my 'Portable ABOK' - Charles Warner's  - A FRESH APPROACH TO KNOTTING AND ROPEWORK.  ISBN 0 9592036 3 X.  A paperback of 272 pages absolutely packed with knots and information that none of these coloured publisher driven books will ever contain - (I know, I have written two myself!).  You may have to hunt for one, but believe me it will be worth it.

Gordon

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: Knot book
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 02:05:23 AM »
so Dan , are you saying some of the knots in these books are inaccurate? Do you have a book reccomendation?


The knots I am most interested in are for work and around the house. Hauling, heavy lifting, bends, pulling equipment onto roofs, towing, saftey for climbing a tree to cut out limbs..ect.  Nothing fancy, just want the best of the best knots for everyday situations. I pretty much have a good basic knowledge from studying knots on websites such as "Grogs animated knots"  and "layhands.com"  I just want a book or two so I dont always have to turn on the computer when i forget how to tie one.  Also the books I bought will look nice on the coffee table, if nothing else. ;D
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 02:54:54 AM by Mike »

roo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1860
    • The Notable Knot Index
Re: Knot book
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 05:30:20 PM »
 I just want a book or two so I dont always have to turn on the computer when i forget how to tie one.  

Well, I tried to set up my website so that visitors could easily print out black & white pages for field use in a binder:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/knotindex.html





« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 05:15:26 PM by roo »
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


drjbrennan

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 142
Re: Knot book
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2007, 08:16:48 PM »
I have to recommend "Turks Heads by Ron Edwards", a little cracker, showed me (finally) how to tie the 3L X 11B turkshead for a bracelet. I think it is aimed mainly at the leatherworkers audience and is part of a series.
IGKT Member

tomh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
Re: Knot book
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2007, 09:25:43 PM »
so Dan , are you saying some of the knots in these books are inaccurate?

A bit of trivia on the matter of published mistakes: sometimes it's deliberate. While a knot isn't copyrightable, any drawings, photos, descriptions etc. of knots certainly are. The only way to prove plagiarism in a new knot book (or a new edition of a Beethoven score) is to show that a planted "error" was copied along with all the correct knots (and notes) from an existing edition.

Fairlead

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 334
  • IGKT Member since 1984 - IGKT Librarian
Re: Knot book
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2007, 11:24:42 PM »
Of course the errors are deliberate - but not for anti-plagurism - we do it to make you guys feel good when you find them!
Joking aside - Knot books have contained errors since the mid 1800's - look at the number of errors in Tom Bowlings 'The Knot Book' - many of which were engravers errors in a previously published French book - think of the time and money it would have taken to correct those!  Photographs are a classic cause of errors - printed in reverse.  I could go on.
I doubt that any book is 100% error free, despite every effort to avoid them - so be cautious but don't let it worry you too much Tom

Gordon

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3959
Re: Knot book
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2007, 05:31:21 AM »
A bit of trivia on the matter of published mistakes: sometimes it's deliberate. While a knot isn't copyrightable, any drawings, photos, descriptions etc. of knots certainly are. The only way to prove plagiarism in a new knot book (or a new edition of a Beethoven score) is to show that a planted "error" was copied along with all the correct knots (and notes) from an existing edition.
?!  I've seen plenty of plagiarism--esp. of images--w/o any hint of action taken
against it.  Indeed, I even pointed out to publishers of Eric Fry's book (new
publishers who bought rights to the original ...), and they wondered if I was
representing (legally) Mr. Fry (as though they shouldn't know this, I guess!).
Some of his book's images were scanned & regurgitated in the horrible book
(which nevertheless received a favorable review by one IGKT member in KM,
of all places!! *&$# ) by Derrick Lewis.  There are other, and more egregious,
cases.

--dl*
====

squarerigger

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
  • IGKTPAB Immediate Past President
    • The Knot Guy
Re: Knot book
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2007, 06:17:51 AM »
Hi Mike,

Are you any further ahead in your search?  I have read all the posts and I see that, with all the negative comments, there appear to be only two recommendations for you - ABOK and Charles Warner, both excellent books, but neither of which contains any colored photographs or many step-by-step instructions as requested.  Gordon Perry's book is great, as are Des Pawson's and Geoffrey Budworth's (despite what others may say) - but don't EVER look for 100% accuracy, even in the great books mentioned - someone will always disagree with you, especially if they were not asked to provide the valuable insights they have until after the book is published.  At that time, it is a little hard to recall thousands of books and say "sorry, Mr/Mrs/Miss ABC has a disagreement with the content of pages XXXXX, so there is a voluntary recall notice in place" - it just is not practical.  Also, there is little incentive for a publisher to try to change something when going to a second or third edition, unless they receive direct complaints that things are dangerous as depicted.

As for the author - Gordon is quite right that, despite what happens in the EXTENSIVE proofreading to which a book is subjected (I know!) there will still be mistakes made.  That's life - deal with it, and DON'T accept something as true just because you saw it in a book, and don't whine when it is in a book - it isn't the gospel, it's a book, warts and all!  Also, remember that sometimes critics are those who neither write nor publish nor voice their opinions directly, but seem to prefer anonimity - closet critics are the perfect ones after all! ::)

Try out the three I have mentioned above, because they have fewer of those "mistakes" that are so often quoted allegorically here and elsewhere.  Try searching amazon.co.uk, amazon.com, alibris.com, as starters - some have pages you can look at right on the web-page.  Good luck with your search! :)

Lindsey Philpott
(another book author)

Mike

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: Knot book
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2007, 06:27:01 PM »
Thanks lindsey. I am still waiting for the two books, in my first post, to come in the mail. I have been looking at one by Des Pawson called "The pocket Guide to Knots and Splices" .  I might just wait until I read ther other two before I purchase another.

Thanks again for all the replies ;D

JustKnot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • My knot album
Re: Knot book
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2007, 09:41:12 PM »
At last I'm going to buy some knot books :D
So far on my list are:
The Ashley Book of Knots of course
Knot Craft by Des Pawson
Encyclopedia of Knots and Fancy Rope Work by R. Graumont (can anyone help me decide on this one, is it worth taking if I'll have ABOK?)

And I'm just looking for a nice book on advanced turks heads and woven knots, anyone could recommend anything?

Willeke

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
  • knopen . ismijnhobby . nl
    • Willeke's knotted Ideas
Re: Knot book
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2007, 10:22:00 PM »
Justas,
Unless you have more money than I expect, or get a very good deal on a set of ABOK+and the encyclopedia (G+H), I would buy ABOK first and wait before buying the other.
I have both and find that I hardly ever take G+H of the shelf.
I have heard and read a lot of un-flattering nicknames for G+H, indicating that more knottyers think the same.
It is a great book portaying knotted work, but it is not as much a book of instructions.

Des Pawsons Knotcraft is a very good deal, not giving as much info, but being far cheaper, it should be your first buy, I think.

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.