Author Topic: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends  (Read 613 times)

mcjtom

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Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« on: May 03, 2022, 02:43:20 AM »
I belatedly discovered the Reever bend.  Unlike its loop version which seems way too baroque, it's easy to tie, seems secure, and seems to untie easily.

Popularity and ornamental differences aside, are there technical reasons to prefer the Zeppelin bend over the Reaver?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 12:56:02 PM by mcjtom »

ParLeijonhufvud

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2022, 04:25:16 AM »
Yes, If you imagine the bend being pulled over or through something, the parallel lead of the reever will risk spilling it. The right angle nature of the zeppelin bend will instead just slip past with no issues.

For the slipping through issue: when I took a river rescue course they told us to use the (horror!) overhand bend (#1410) since it slipped through a carabiner the easiest with the leads to just one side. I asked about the Ashley bend: the instructor agreed that it was more secure, but also non-trivial to teach to the typical non knotty person (the other participants were struggling with the 10 common and simple knots as was), and therefore unlikely to be tied correctly. I wonder if that is part of the reason the river rescue folks love the no-knot: it is extremely unlikely to be tied wrong.

ParLeijonhufvud

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2022, 05:41:36 PM »
Took some pictures to illustrate:

1. Ashley bend has the tails to the same side and will twist to pass fairly easily if pulled through a carabiner
2. Overhand bend has virtually no "structure" on one side, and will therefore rotate and pass even easier
3. Reever bend  can catch  on a carabiner and potentially spill
4. Zeppeliner bend will pass, but not quite so easily as an Ashley bend

So:
 
  • pulled over/through something: Ashley or Zeppeliner bend (or possibly even overhand bend)
  • no risk of pulling through/over: Reever bend



« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 05:43:19 PM by ParLeijonhufvud »

roo

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2022, 08:59:40 PM »
I belatedly discovered the Reever bend. 
There appears to be a few variants floating around.  Perhaps for the sake of discussion, you can post a diagram of the bend you have in mind.
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mcjtom

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2022, 09:16:33 PM »
The one shown in the 'Tying sequence' here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reever_Knot
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 10:17:54 PM by mcjtom »

mcjtom

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2022, 10:16:27 PM »
Took some pictures to illustrate:
Cheers for that!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 10:17:13 PM by mcjtom »

roo

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2022, 11:11:28 PM »
The one shown in the 'Tying sequence' here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reever_Knot
I'll attach a screenshot in case the page changes.

When I tried some moderate loading of small nylon rope, the Reever became rather difficult to untie.  I was expecting better considering the "non-jamming" description on Wikipedia.  ???

On larger rope, I notice that the knot cannot seem to handle line compression without a parting in a disturbing manner.  I don't expect rope to have a lot of compressive load, of course, but this performance was rather poor.

Lastly, I'm not confident of its inspectability.  On the whole, its lack of use is fitting.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 11:30:11 PM by roo »
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mcjtom

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Re: Reever vs. Zeppelin bends
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2022, 06:52:57 AM »
On the whole, its lack of use is fitting.

Thanks for this!

My interest in the Reever sprung from watching knot structures morphing when subjected to extreme loads in the HowNot2 video:

https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=7274.0

Not to read too much from it, I found it fascinating to watch the Zeppelin reshaping itself, with the tendency of stripping the sheeth from the core, while the Reever maintaining its structure.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 08:46:43 AM by mcjtom »