Author Topic: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)  (Read 194 times)

GrandpaBig

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Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« on: January 02, 2021, 04:21:10 AM »
Quote
author=Michael Ohene link=topic=1362.msg9373#msg9373 date=1242614979]
...
My webpage :
My notation: http://www.whatsthesequency.com/knot.html
....
-Michael Ohene

I saw this from about 10 years ago.  Michael's web site is still active.  There is quite a bit there, but I have not taken the time to study it, yet!  I am aware that others have pursued this, also.  Peter Suber (google) once had a knot site and proposed one.

I have the book:  "A Fresh Approach to Knotting and Ropework" by Charles Warner

I may have seen other proposals - can't remember what or where.

I am a retired electronics engineer who does a little programming - mainly Python - and have been doing a little study of mathematical knot theory - not even enough to be dangerous yet!   I have heard there is some python library to support mathematical knots.  Is anyone on the forum still pursuing this?

Blessings!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 04:23:23 AM by GrandpaBig »

KC

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"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
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agent_smith

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Re: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2021, 01:58:33 PM »
Hello GrandpaBig,

Can you please clarify if you mean:
1) hand written notation to describe each of the hand movements to tie a particular knot; or
2) software (computer code) - to enable drawing of a knot structure which can be saved to an image format.

Thanks...

GrandpaBig

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Re: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2021, 08:09:34 PM »
As far as just a notation i believe Knotmaker by Dave Root and Derek Smith lends a notation for their knot drawing tool.
.
As far as Python specific knot notation (only read about) drqawing/evaluation:
kauffmanstates.py
pyknotid

I will look into both of those.  I am a Linux guy and have tried running some knot software in past with not too much luck.  I will try again.  Good to have names associated with a software tool!   Thanks so much.

GrandpaBig

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Re: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2021, 08:12:58 PM »
Hello GrandpaBig,

Can you please clarify if you mean:
1) hand written notation to describe each of the hand movements to tie a particular knot; or
2) software (computer code) - to enable drawing of a knot structure which can be saved to an image format.


Agent_Smith,

I am usually a "both and" vs an "either or"  guy.  It would just be good to know what is available.   Thanks for the response.

KC

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Re: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2021, 11:03:56 PM »
i think we might say belts and suspenders.
Multi-path generally good to know, even if just pick mono path from.
>>cross verification parity within self/set
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
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agent_smith

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Re: Is Knot Notation still being pursued? (from newbie to Forum)
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2021, 01:39:18 AM »
In reply to GrandpaBig:

With specific regard to hand written notation to describe the hand movements to tie a particular knot:

I have to inform you that it has been tried many times in the past - and all end the same way (they die a slow death and are forgotten).
Harry Asher attempted to introduce a hand written notation system in his book - "The Alternative Knot Book" - but again, it never caught on and died a slow death.

Why?

In my view, all of these hand written notation systems fail to take into account a 'reference frame'.
That is, the notation only has meaning to the person who wrote the notation.

From an outsiders perspective, there is no reference frame from which to make sense of the information.
For example, the notional concept of 'up', 'down', 'left' and 'right' can only have meaning within a defined reference frame.

Think of an astronaut in space... which way is up? Is there an 'up'?
For example, some attempts have used phrases such as; "form an underhand loop" (which is meaningless). Underhand implies there must be an 'over' hand... and again, which direction is 'under' and which direction is 'over'. If the knot is flipped over, 'under' becomes 'over', and 'over' becomes 'under' (and 'left' is exchanged with 'right'). The reference frame must be very clearly specified and then maintained by the knot tyer.

Most notation systems also fail to take into consideration the concept of chirality and the fact that all knots have a mirror image 'inverse' form. Eg... tie your favorite knot and then hold it adjacent to a plane mirror... and you will see its reflected 'inverse' form - which is equally valid.

I wish you every success in your endeavor to develop a user friendly hand written knot notation system!
If you succeed (I do believe anything is possible) - i will predict that it solves the reference frame problem and uses chirality to describe loop geometry.

...

In term of computer code - this is a different matter.