Author Topic: Binding knot for slippery and soft nylon twine; square knot loosens and unties  (Read 480 times)

Mart

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Hello! It is my first post so I would like to say hi to all the members. I am glad this forum exists :)

And straight to my problem. I have a quite slippery and soft nylon twine, this one:

Braided Nylon Seine Twine #24 - SGT KNOTS - 100% Nylon Fiber (https://www.amazon.com/Braided-Nylon-Seine-Twine-Construction/dp/B01FGHTEEE)

It's very strong and a great utility twine. I use it all over the place but the reason I actually bought it was to tie together some snap bolts to of my diving equipment. Most popular way to do so is: https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi-diver-news/how-to-attach-a-bolt-snap-to-dive-equipment/

However, I need to tie a snap bolt to something much heavier than a flashlight and hence #24 (1,85mm) nylon twine. But the problem is, it does not hold very well with the square knot. It comes undone. It is slippery and the knot has to work a little - the tension is not constant. Melting the ends works quite well but I don't like the thought that it is the only thing that holds it.

What could be an alternative? My only requirement is that I need to be able to pull it strong together before finishing it, the twine cannot be loose.

Thank you!

roo

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Hello! It is my first post so I would like to say hi to all the members. I am glad this forum exists :)

And straight to my problem. I have a quite slippery and soft nylon twine, this one:

Braided Nylon Seine Twine #24 - SGT KNOTS - 100% Nylon Fiber (https://www.amazon.com/Braided-Nylon-Seine-Twine-Construction/dp/B01FGHTEEE)

It's very strong and a great utility twine. I use it all over the place but the reason I actually bought it was to tie together some snap bolts to of my diving equipment. Most popular way to do so is: https://www.tdisdi.com/tdi-diver-news/how-to-attach-a-bolt-snap-to-dive-equipment/

However, I need to tie a snap bolt to something much heavier than a flashlight and hence #24 (1,85mm) nylon twine. But the problem is, it does not hold very well with the square knot. It comes undone. It is slippery and the knot has to work a little - the tension is not constant. Melting the ends works quite well but I don't like the thought that it is the only thing that holds it.

What could be an alternative? My only requirement is that I need to be able to pull it strong together before finishing it, the twine cannot be loose.

Thank you!

This is a tough problem, especially with knots underwater that makes the line more slippery.  Constrictor-style knots may have trouble since rotation of the object may cause the crossing patterns to slip off a convex shape and loosen.

So instead, I would make plenty of wraps, then plenty of frapping turns at 90 degrees between the two objects to get things really tight (as seen in lashings).  Then, you could twin the two line ends together and tie a simple overhand knot (European death knot), and have a needle on hand to insert the point into the belly of the knot and roll the twinned overhand knot tight against the objects while you maintain some tension.

I would practice rolling an overhand knot with a needle or nail to get a feel for the maneuver first.

I tried it with some similar nylon mason line and it worked quite well.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 11:36:45 PM by roo »
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Mart

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Thank you for your analysis. This manoeuvre you call "rolling" an overhand knot - how is it done? How do you tighten an overhand knot against an object using a needle/nail? I tried googling it but failed ;)

roo

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Thank you for your analysis. This manoeuvre you call "rolling" an overhand knot - how is it done? How do you tighten an overhand knot against an object using a needle/nail? I tried googling it but failed ;)

You keep the twinned overhand knot open at first, so you can insert the needle.  In the attached image, the needle is placed in the region marked in orange.  As long as you keep the overhand knot open, you should be able to roll the overhand knot where you need it.

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Mart

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Thank you, I will give it a try some time soon.

Mart

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I think going for the twin overhand was a very good idea. I arranged it so there is little stress on the knot itself. I don't like the melting I did but it had to be secured somehow :) Pictures included. Thank you.



« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 PM by Mart »

roo

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I think going for the twin overhand was a very good idea. I arranged it so there is little stress on the knot itself. I don't like the melting I did but it had to be secured somehow :) Pictures included. Thank you.





Your application is a little different than I envisioned based on the original link, but I'm glad the solution works there, too.
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SS369

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Hi Mart.

If you do another as you've shown, try back weaving the loose ends back into the weave, following the "tracks" that looks good to you.
If back woven sufficiently, you'll not have to melt anything. Or a small Turks head knot around that end. < Could be a whole new journey.
What you did looks good (except for the melt).  ;)

SS