Author Topic: yChan's Knot - Crossing North Loop Knot  (Read 338 times)


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yChan's Knot - Crossing North Loop Knot
« on: January 09, 2020, 11:01:18 AM »
Hi dear all,

Here is a Crossing North Loop Knot for comments.

Happy Knotting
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 12:07:00 PM by siriuso »


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Re: yChan's Knot - Crossing North Loop Knot
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 11:32:19 PM »
Thanks for your presentation yChan.
This structure is really the integration of two #206 Crossing hitches (aka Munter hitches).

The Crossing hitches are in Z/Z chirality.


You could also present this as S/S chirality.

When I took a first 'quick look' - I wasn't certain if the initial #206 Crossing hitch would hold its geometry under load.
But, it does maintain its geometry.

Its even stable when subjected to a circumferential loading profile (ak 'ring' loading).

In fact, I found that applying a circumferential loading profile assisted with achieving a well defined compact dressing - with clearly defined #206 Crossing hitches.

Overall, this is a very nice creation.

Are you claiming this as an original creation?


One thing we seem to disagree on is the use of the descriptor 'loop knot'.
The 'loop' which you refer to as actually an 'eye'.

Only a 'loop' can have chirality - an 'eye' does not.
A loop can be created in either S or Z chirality.

Both of the #206 Crossing hitches in this structure have a particular chirality - in this case - both Z.

This is actually an eye knot built from the integration of Z/Z Crossing hitches.
The concept of 'north' or 'south' is arbitrary in my view.

Related concepts about 'direction':
Harry Asher presented what he referred to as an 'Eastern' Zeppelin bend (in his Alternative Knot Book). It could just as easily have been a 'Western' Zeppelin bend.
The concept of 'east' and 'west' is arbitrary.
Harry seemed to have missed the fact that a Zeppelin bend can be tied as S/Z or Z/S chirality - both are valid.
And the often chimed B/Q...6/9 tying methods are also arbitrary unless you have a fixed frame of reference (which is in fact a redundant concept).
All you need to understand is that a Zeppelin Bend is built from 2 superposed loops of opposite chirality.
You can arbitrarily choose S or Z as your first loop. It doesn't matter whether you choose S or long as the other loop is opposite chirality.

Anyhow, I thought I'd share these concepts with you - because I think 'north' and 'south' are arbitrary concepts...

There is an interesting correspondence with an end-to-end joining knot.
If we compare your creation to the #1439 Carrick bend:

[ ] in a #1439 Carrick bend, the inter-linked #206 Crossing hitches have S/S chirality (per Ashley).
[ ] In your presentation (dubbed 'north loop knot'), the #206 Crossing hitches have Z/Z chirality
As far as I can see, your presentation is in fact an eye knot derived from #1439 Carrick bend (but with opposite chirality).

In 'ABoK' the #1439 Carrick bend is illustrated as being tied from 2 interwoven loops with S chirality (ie boths loops have S chirality).
The structure created is a dressing state - since it is unstable and quickly capsizes on application of load.
The resultant stable state is formed from two #206 Crossing hitches both having S chirality.
Ashley does not show the Carrick bend in Z/Z chirality.

There is no apparent reason why #1439 Carrick bend could also be tied from 2 interwoven loops of Z chirality (ie both loops have Z chirality).
Interestingly, on 'animated knots', the Carrick bend is in fact shown with Z/Z chirality.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 07:44:06 AM by agent_smith »