Author Topic: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video  (Read 2111 times)

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3744
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2019, 09:00:12 PM »
The following comments are potentially off-topic but are in direct response to Dan Lehman at reply #10...

per Dan Lehman at reply #10 in relation to #1057 and #1058:
Quote
Hardly such an oversight, IMO.  Rather, he simply wasn't
playing the game you're so hard at in narrowly/strictly
per-your-own-definition identifying *bowlines*; and in
these, he felt some merit.

An interesting comment that I just noticed... possibly either a cryptic reply or an exercise in obfuscation?
You might do better to just write in clear and unambiguous language if you believe #1057 and/or #1058 to be deserving of the title 'Bowline'.
The language is perspicuous, but you insist on a perverted reading.
YOU are all gung-ho about YOUR notion of "bowline"; Ashley, I surmise,
was less so --and he offered that these cited knots "had a better claim"
to "bowline" --for which HE does NOT give a set of criteria.  YOU impose
yours, and then call Ashley mistaken : heckuva way to run a contest!   :o   ::)


Quote
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, there is no nipping loop in either of these structures which means they are automatically disqualified from being 'Bowlines'.
By us; but this is now, and that was then & Ashley's unknown thoughts.

Quote
And the term nipping loop has a special meaning...which includes the following properties:
[ ] TIB
[ ] loaded at both ends
[ ] has a specific chirality
[ ] takes the form of a helical loop (if it is to be regarded as being a primary / first order Bowline - and not something else - such as a virtual Bowline).
Who voted on "TIB" --you & X. ?!  I can understand that being
a desideratum for "bowlines" --even for this component--, but
it's not (yet) mine; so I accept the "cloverhand" & fig.8 mid-flype
structures; as I struggle re the "back-side" (was "anti-") bowline
structures where the arguable *loop* so leans out towards *helix*
which IMO is not so *nipping*/compressing-within as is wanted
--a circumstance actual, in-real-rope #1010 BWLs can achieve, even!!

(One can also presume that TIB is a sine qua non for mid-line
eye knots, but then what to do with non-TIB ones, which might
well be preferred for some reason and put in in the more tedious
tying, but serving well thereafter --likely sans any tie-it-in-a-hurry
situation where TIB plays trumps!?)

"loaded at both ends" will prove to be at times more *seemly*
than physically *actual*.  As I've noted, if the mid-span part
between mirroring "nipping loops" is drawn out, it can exist
as an eye --w/o tension, thereby revealing something about
the apparent "nipping loop" (per your criterion) structures feeding it!

Quote
And if you believe that #1057 and #1058 are in fact deserving of the title 'Bowline' - this would open up the field for many other structures to also be reclassified as Bowlines - and would give rise to a whole new hypothesis underlying what a 'Bowline' is.

Yes, quite.  *I* do NOT; what Ashley had in mind is another question.

--dl*
====

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 01:12:54 AM »
So as not to completely de-rail Alan Lee's good work, I have started a new topic thread here: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6525.msg43389#msg43389

The debate about #1057/58 is not in alignment with the original topic of this thread...

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2019, 01:46:40 AM »
Hi All,
        Thanks Mark.   So far I already got it  figure out how I would like to tie most of these knots, still have a few tough one  waiting to be resolve. Most these knots are easier to tie and dress with softer rope. and it is very hard for climbing rope.  well it end up quite a big project for me, I am happy to do it, but free time isn't always on my side, I guess I have to take my time, do it one thing at a time. If any reader have interest to find a good way to tie these loops, you are more then welcome to post it here.
I have two more loops here #10 and #11, both are no good for biaxially load, #10 is fine for normal use, #11 may slip on heavy loaded.  謝謝 alanleeknots

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2019, 02:42:28 AM »
Try to modify and Name change one loop on page below  the " Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
? Reply #13 on: August 07, 2019, 08:56:07 PM ? ",   I accidentally hitting the Remove,  that page no longer
there.
Here, restore the two loops and with name change  from Double Loop #  1-3  to  "Bowline on a bight
(ABoK #1080) Variation "

Aug-13-2019 add this Double Loop # 2-1 to this page, I think this loop is  good for biaxially load.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 09:27:03 PM by alanleeknots »

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2019, 02:50:36 AM »
Hi Alan,

I'm interested in your #1080 variant.
Am having a little difficulty trying to tie this to match what I see in the right hand photo...
Can you show this in a loosely dressed state please ?

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2019, 05:04:38 AM »
   
        Hi Mark, Here is the loose knot.

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2019, 08:10:21 AM »
Thanks Alan,
Once you practice the hand movements to tie this variant of #1080, its not too difficult a tsk.

I have been trying to ascertain what benefits/improvements this bring to #1080...
One thing I found is that the addition of the round turn does appear to allow the knot to be loaded biaxially (Spart through to Spart).
The round turn retards any tendency of the collar to invert upon itself.
This is quite interesting because #1080 is vulnerable in a biaxial loading profile.

Thanks again...

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2019, 09:08:39 AM »
Hi All,
         These four loops here, are all good for biaxially load.
          謝謝 alanleeknot

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #23 on: August 18, 2019, 11:47:41 PM »
Hi all,  I have two loops here I like, Both  can be loaded biaxially . I have a quick test on both loops,
          Figure 8 knot double loop do better than Overhand knot double loop,  ,
          but a quick test not good enough to confirm much,  need more test.

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2019, 06:45:36 AM »
Hi all,   I have another loop here I like, and  can be loaded biaxially . Already got it figure out how I world like to tie all these loops,  I am planning to make the videos how to tie all these loop first, and then will test it.
 謝謝 alanleeknots.
 

alanleeknots

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 488
Re: ABOK # 1074 and ABOK # 1035 Video
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2019, 10:19:41 PM »
 Well interesting, Xarax and Knotsaver have tie few of the Double loops before me.
        Here are the links that are given by Knotsaver
        https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5490
        https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5490.msg37268#msg37268