Author Topic: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch  (Read 1702 times)

MkT

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Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« on: July 01, 2019, 07:12:37 AM »
Hello experts,
Tonight I was dabbling with a cotton shoelace, formed a Constrictor, then formed a bight with one of its ends, and fed the bight through the nearest opening in the Constrictor to form what looked like a modified noose.  After cinching the Constrictor, I noticed that the ?noose? had some useful properties similar to a Midshipman.  It held up very well under tension without slipping, yet was easily adjustable.  (I wonder how it would hold with slippery cord like Dyneema?). I might try using it for tensioning tarp guy lines instead of using the Midshipman.  Unfortunately but not surprisingly, it?s hell to untie after being under load.  I?m sure many of you have seen this before.  What did I just accidentally make?  Thanks!

tsik_lestat

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 11:32:50 AM »
Hello MkT

I am not an expert, but i have a couple of ideas about your creation.

Quote
formed a Constrictor, then formed a bight with one of its ends, and fed the bight through the nearest opening in the Constrictor to form what looked like a modified noose.

It is possible that you have tied a `constrictor exploder`shown in first picture.It is simply a bight,fed through a constrictor nipping structure, like a clove hitch exploder. You see that one eye leg, is connected directly with the slipped bight, which makes the loop adjustable, but when you cinch the constrictor(load the knot) it takes the form of a fixed loop.

Quote
After cinching the Constrictor, I noticed that the ?noose? had some useful properties similar to a Midshipman.

However, if your case is a  noose, then you should move to the next pictures.The second picture, shows a slipped noose based on a constrictor hitch, and the third, is a creation by Xarax, named as `Buntline Extinguisher`, a very good symmetric noose based also on a constrictor, which can be regarded as a hitch too. The fourth picture, also illustrates  a decent constrictor noose, based on Dan Lehman's idea, always in slipped fashion. 

I have attached the slipped versions because of your phrase ` fed the bight through the nearest opening in the Constrictor`.

Here is an interesting link with nooses,including the third knot( buntline extinguisher, third photo,initial post)

https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3133.0

Hope this helps!!


« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:41:41 PM by tsik_lestat »

agent_smith

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 02:44:57 PM »
Nice work tsik_lestat,
Tying a slipped constrictor and the other forms is interesting.
I'm sure Xarax will be pleased that you have referenced his work :)

Xarax has done a lot of work with hitches in the past and more recently.
His creations are too numerous to mention here...a shame he can't share them directly.

Hopefully MkT can verify if your images represent what he tied...

...Grammar edited...
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:45:55 PM by agent_smith »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 04:34:39 PM »
Thank you both very much for your replies and time spent.  tsik_lestat, the photos (Xarax ref.)were great and now I learned from you how to tie a Constrictor Exploder which in itself is a big plus.  However, I wasn't able to match any of the photos with my situation.  So I have attached some photos of what I did.  I did not include a slip, in mine.

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2019, 04:54:29 PM »
One major drawback.  I forgot to mention that, unlike the Midshipman, this is only adjustable when NOT under tension.  But it still might have some applications.

tsik_lestat

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 09:17:09 PM »
Agent_smith, thanks but it is based on others work, i just had it gathered in one place.

Xarax is always one step (or more) ahead of us. At least we have most of his work in this forum.

MkT,  if i am decoding your last photo right, you are holding with your hand the working end aren't you?
If that is the case, the standing end, is perpendicular to the eye of your knot, which is a pretty strange configuration. If you take my previous first knot (constrictor_exploder), and pull the eye leg of the slipped bight, (not the slipped end the other one), working into all the slack from the primary eye knot, you will end up with a form of your knot.

In other words, you can transform it to your structure, if you make the slipped bight, your primary eye knot,with just one pull, so i was pretty close wasn't i?

But doing so, i think you have lost the basic grip of the constrictor, because the knot is being transformed to something else, although remaining an adjustable loopknot.Moreover, the experts and their extensive tests, inform us that the adjustable\noose knots, have a tendency to slip under heavy tension, (which might be true even for the previous knots) and they should have the appropriate geometry (turns or half hitches), in order to restrain those slippage issues. Are you sure that your knot won't slip when maximally loaded?

However, with this smart move, you have managed to create a jam resistant front collar, and if i were you, i would slip the working end to add more constriction!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 11:01:28 PM by tsik_lestat »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2019, 11:32:17 PM »
Hi tsik_lestat,

You are right that the Constrictor Exploder (your photo 1) can be quickly converted to whatever this concoction is by making the slipped bight the "noose" and eliminating the other loop completely.

My picture was not that clear but I was holding the standing end which was in-line with the noose, not perpendicular.  Here are a couple more photos to clarify and to hint at the noose's adjustability.

I don't have a strain gauge load cell at home, but I did tie the standing end of the 550 paracord to a support outside, put my foot into the noose as in a stirrup, and pushed down with most of my body weight. The noose supported probably 180 pounds without any slippage.  I'm guessing that it would not slip even with much more load.  After being so loaded, the noose was again still easily adjustable.  And I was still able to pick apart the tight "knotted" part to salvage the paracord just by using my thumbnail.
Thanks for your help.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 03:09:23 PM by MkT »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 03:31:59 PM »
Hello again tsik_lestat,

My apologies.  After looking again at the UNLOADED form, you were right.  Both standing and tail ends are PERPENDICULAR to the noose.  Once cinched and pulled on a little, the basic structure then shifts and rolls over a bit and tends to get in-line with the standing end.  I have included more photos to better help someone recognize this structure. Thanks again. Thanks
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 03:37:20 PM by MkT »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 03:58:47 PM »
The first two photos (below) show the slipping condition (not loaded). The tail end is easily pulled, its length adjusted, and the structure gets somewhat perpendicular to the standing end.  Notice that the nipping loop around the tail end (pointed to by pencil) is fairly unconstricted at this time.  The second two photos show the gripping condition where the noose is pulled (loaded) parallel and away from the standing end.   Notice that the nipping loop  that the tail end exits through then constricts and gets shifted and nested so that it pinches around the tail end even more.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 03:34:53 PM by MkT »

tsik_lestat

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 11:28:20 PM »
Hello MkT,

i believe i am not familiar with your creation, and if i have tied it right, my previous depiction of your structure does not align with your recent photos!At first glance, the two ends are perpendicular to the eye, but it can't be loaded from both ends(through loaded), so it does not qualify as a midline loop.

If i get this right, you are attempting to build an adjustable loop, which is nice, but not very easy most of the times! Nooses are adjustable, but they usually cinch to the object they enclose, when loaded,  and that is not the desired effect for some applications.Adjustable loops should not slip under tension, and should be easy to adjust when not being loaded. If the adjustable mechanism comes from the returning eye leg, which is usually the case, your nipping structure should have the appropriate geometry to hold the working end.

You might want to check the following link, where Xarax presents his asymmetrical pretzel loop, an adjustable, maximally secure, TIB loopknot in slipped fashion.

https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4464.0

If i were to choose between this and the constrictor(exploder), i would prefer the pretzel, because the constrictor grips very hard and it is very difficult to untie or adjust, even in this slipped form.

You should check your nipping structure, if it can hold in a secure way the returning eye leg,if it keeps an L-shape entering the nub, so as to remain perpendicular to the axis of the loading and test your knot with other cordages, loads, check for jam resistance, e.t.c.

Hopefully ,others might recognize your structure or have tied something similar to it!

« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 07:32:51 AM by tsik_lestat »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 03:33:03 AM »
Hello,
I tried tying the Pretzel-Eskimo loop a couple times and compared it to the Constrictor-originated loop I have messed with.  In 5 mm cotton cord, the P-E loop jammed so tightly that the loop lost its ability to be adjusted further. And it was very difficult to untie.  (Hope I didn?t make a mistake in tying it.) On the other hand, the C-O loop in question maintained its ability to be adjusted and was actually easier to untie.  The nipping structure appears to meet your criterion, too.

 Thanks again!  I will heed your suggestions about testing the constrictor originated loop in question, unfortunately in a low tech way. Hopefully someone else out there might recognize this. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 04:23:12 AM by MkT »

MkT

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Re: Messing with the Constrictor Hitch
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2019, 10:13:19 PM »
Hello,
I'm still trying to get a handle on this concoction.   I'm new at this; I'm still trying to learn knot structure terms; so the multiple  intermediate configurations that this constrictor-originated loop in question has taken on during my various manipulations have been very interesting/ somewhat confusing to me.

tsik_lestat has been very kind in providing feedback so far and has been very helpful.  Both he and I have been trying to look up various slip-grip analogs without success. 

Early on, I tried reverse engineering my structure in question and found that if I "undo" the eye by one unwrap, the whole structure reduces to a simple noose.  Maybe if I refer to it as a simple noose-originated loop (instead of referring to the Constrictor) that might trigger someone out there to be able to better relate/recognize my concoction.

Based on this, I have attached photos below showing the simple noose method of tying it.  Photo 1 shows my concoction (for lack of name) below the simple noose.  Photo 2 shows simply wrapping the eye of the simple noose through the opened up nub. Photo three shows the final stage of pulling the eye out.  Photo 4 shows the Constrictor-originated method (lower) compared to the final result of the simple noose originated method (upper).  Exactly the same.  Voila, "modified simple noose with added twists for added grip".  Anybody have comments, criticisms, ideas ??
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 10:18:44 PM by MkT »