Author Topic: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)  (Read 2441 times)

agent_smith

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Re: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2019, 12:48:20 AM »
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I consider this comment unrelated to knotting!Since when does a query about a test procedure, which i totally ignore, conceal underlying motivation? If you don't approve the word 'ambiguous' replace it with the word 'unknown'. What is obvious to you, may not be for some others!Seek somewhere else for underlying motives, not in my replies, if you feel like doing so.
And how is this comment related to knotting science?
You are extrapolating a meaning which is completely far removed from my curiosity.
If you don't approve of the phrase underlying motive , you may replace it with "thought process".

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Yes!I think we have finally got this after three iterations of this statement (or similar) needed in all of your very last three replies!You made your point crystal clear from the very beginning
I'm pleased that you can see my viewpoint - however, is it necessary to overtly re-emphasize it?
Your line of questioning is  probing from several different angles about the security of the Ampersand Bowline - and each time you do this, I simply reply in kind with my viewpoint.

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It depends on the nature of your comments!
With that remark, I will assume that the nature of your comments are made in good faith.
I wish you all the best in your examination of the Ampersand Bowline and other explorations.

tsik_lestat

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Re: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2019, 05:19:50 PM »
Last but not least, a helical nipping structure with a U anti-blocking turn, stabilized as a bowline knot, is shown in the following images.The first line of defence has been strengthened, since it is connected directly with the SP, while the front collar (near the eye), which clamps the legs of the bight structure, although it forms a sharp inverse turn, i believe it would survive from maximal loads, due to the other U turn of the nipping structure just before the on-going eye leg.
The result is a stable, secure, jam resistant, virtual bowline, whose TIB version is illustated in the last image.

tsik_lestat

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Re: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2019, 09:52:38 PM »
From the previous nipping structure, if we pass the WE down through the first loop, then we get the Tresse bowline, presented by Alpineer in the following thread,  https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4321.msg26983#msg26983, another interesting, strong, stabilizing mechanism, whose gripping power might be compared with similar function structures such as the constrictor, but being more prone to jamming at maximal loads.

The nipping structure of another bowline knot, that worths to be mentioned, is shown in the first image, along with the WE passing through it.It can be derived from the previous one, if we follow another path for the SP to avoid the sharp turn of the first one. But does this mat structure look familiar? I did not know its name, but i have located it in the following link, as a Dines arthroscopic knot, analyzed by Xarax as capsized adjustable hitches. https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4107.msg24631#msg24631.
Capturing the SE with the returning eye leg, can lead to the following attached images of the corresponding bowline, in front, back or TIB fashion accordingly, if the tag end is tucked back through the collar.

In my view, this structure can not jam for two main reasons. Firstly, because of the existence of the U turn component which grips the front collar from one side and holds it, while the helical mechanism of the SP, pushes this very collar down preventing it from closing around itself.

But, this function of this helical SP component, creates a sizeable slack in the collar, which is located to the point where the on-going eye leg exits from the nipping structure and that is a drawback, at least from an aesthetics point of view. Therefore, the knot should be pre-cinched very well, (especially the collar), in the first place.

The Dines knot, illustrated in first image, can be considered as an adjustable mechanism which can capsize to this knot presented also here, https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6373.0, or a Samisen bowline without the tucking of the tag end.Additionally, it can capsize to the Chinese/loop, a well secured, more of a decorative (or practical) loopknot, which has also been tied by Alan Lee, presented in the following link as cross loopknot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM-oqzQ4cvs&t

Furthermore, a form of this knot as a bowline is presented here, which features some interesting  knotting aspects.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 12:15:15 AM by tsik_lestat »

tsik_lestat

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Re: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2019, 04:56:10 PM »
An eskimo Dines variation of the previous bowline is shown in first image, which somehow works out the slack problem, in that the helical mechanism, is now a function of the on going eye leg, hence the pressure to the collar is being reduced.

If we induce some light transformation to the Dines knot, we end up with the following bowline structure, illustrated in images 2,3,4 in a loose front and back view. This new nipping structure of same topology but different geometry configuration, completely eliminates the slack collar problem, retaining the jam resistance property and the Tibness of the knot. The TIB version is obtained, if the WE is tucked back through the bight component (no room for illustration).

Could these TIB nipping structures be used as two wrap hitches? The answer is positive and it can be confirmed in the following link  https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4739.msg30591#msg30591.
A great series of two wrap tight hitches is presented in this thread by Squarebanksalaska, while focusing on second hitch 3, we can make out the exact same nipping structure with the bowline presented here.
 
The Dines knot, as a two wrap hitch, is the reverse of the hitch 3 of Squarebanksalaska.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 05:18:06 PM by tsik_lestat »

tsik_lestat

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Re: A round turn + U turn jam resistant TIB bowline(not double)
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2019, 07:03:18 PM »
The Dines knot, as a starting base knot, appears to be a very interesting and productive structure. Two bowlines and two capsized knots have been derived from it, as well as it can be used as the starting point of the EHL2 tying, another end termination loopknot analyzed in this thread (reply#3, second photo)
https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6382.msg42996#msg42996.

There is one more knot illustrated in the attached images, in a loose, front and back view, that can be tied straight from the Dines with en extra tuck, shown in detail in first image. It is a symmetrical Zeppelin-like structure with no overhands in its core nub. Some might recognise this mat pattern as the Bad Brother's bend or Valentine's tightknot, by Luca or Valentine, (i am not sure who the original creator was), with the difference that it is transformed here into a loopknot.(reply#50, third and fourth image, link provided) https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4090.msg31980#msg31980.