Author Topic: yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"  (Read 250 times)

siriuso

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yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"
« on: May 09, 2019, 10:09:44 PM »
Hi dear all,

Here is my folder of my working notes "Bends Classed By Starts". I am trying to class the bends by their starts according to my tying methods as well as their tucking methods. You may find the relationship of some known bends and the bends that I discovered. The link of this folder is as follows :-

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kGG0h_0QQ2eIxhEquySzNBUC0O9li1dv?usp=sharing

Please enjoy.

Happy Knotting
yChan

agent_smith

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Re: yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2019, 02:06:08 AM »
Thank you for this work yChan.

If I may provide some constructive feedback...

The way in which you present the data/information is very hard for the casual reader to extract a meaningful understanding.
Also, the way in which you take your photos is hard on the eye - using a dark chair/furniture as a background makes it harder to observe fine detail.

I would urge you to rethink how you organise and present your data/information.

If you consider the fact that you are not getting a lot of responses and interaction from people - this might be due to some of the reasons I am advancing.

Some issues:
1. Your notional concept of 'up and 'down' is arbitrary in my view.
When you create a 'loop' - it will have a particular chirality - which can be S or Z form. Using chirality helps with orientation and sense of spatial location.
In my view, this is a defining characteristic of what a 'loop' is - in that only a 'loop' can have a particular chirality (S or Z).
In contrast, a 'bight' has no chirality.

For instance, everyone has a left hand and a right hand - and you can exploit this dimensional frame of reference.
Where you have 2 loops of opposite chirality - it will be easy to designate if the S loop is left or right (in the reference frame of a persons notion of left/right).
When you have 2 loops of the same chirality - you will need to be careful in designating position relative to one another. Provided you have a valid reference frame - it should be possible to describe and map data in a coherent manner.

2. You could also describe whether2 loops are superposed or inter-linked - as per what you call 'start' - may be better to describe as the 'base configuration' or 'initial configuration'.

3. You could also make clear which 'bends' (ie end-to-end joining knots) are symmetrical or asymmetrical.

...

I think if you were to re-organise your data/information in a way that captures the above 3 salient points - your work will be easier to understand and take on new meaning.

Of course, as they say - "the ball is in your court".
It's up to you what you do with it.

siriuso

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Re: yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 11:43:35 AM »
Hi Mark and dear all,

It is clear as I said that I am trying to class the bends by their starts according to my tying methods as well as their tucking methods. You may find the relationship of some known bends and the bends that I discovered. You may also find the relationship between these bends in my folder by the files named '6BendsCruiseRevisedop.pdf' (posted in this forum on March 16, 2018). For easy reference I have just included into the folder of "My Other Tying Method of Some Known Knots".

In these tables, the upper rows photos shown are my tying methods (introduced in "My Working Note Part 1" in July 2017). They are my discovered methods/ways to form the required loops forms which are shown at the buttom rows. Anyone can form the loops forms (in their own ways, not using my methods) same as shown in the bottom rows, still come to the bends.

I understand chirality in knotting, the S and Z turn/loop. I use "Twist A", "Twist B", "Over" and "Under", in order to state clearly the actions. "Twist A" is two ropes side by side twisted in Z turn, "Twist B" is in S turn.

"Under" and "Over" are to make loops over or under their standing parts. In chirality term, over is Z loop and under S loop. I can and may use the chirality terms, but at this moment I feel they are simple enough for understanding.

"Up" denotes the tail is in the upper position to its standing part. "Down" denotes the tail is in the lower position to its standing part.

The loops forms are shown in photos whether they are interlocking, superposted, symmetrical or asymmetrical. I have no intention to mention them.

I have no idea why there are not many comment to my posts and I am optimistic to this and always.

Happy Knotting
yChan
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 11:47:39 AM by siriuso »

agent_smith

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Re: yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2019, 11:10:59 PM »
Quote
It is clear as I said that I am trying to class the bends by their starts according to my tying methods as well as their tucking methods
In my view, tying methods are more aligned toward the decorative spectrum of knotting.

For instance, there are a number of ways to tie a #1053 Butterfly knot.
All roads lead to Rome in the end.
I am not clear as to what a particular tying method can reveal about the Butterfly eye knot.
In the same way, it is not clear as to what all the different tying methods tell us about the final stable structure of a knot.

Quote
"Under" and "Over" are to make loops over or under their standing parts. In chirality term, over is Z loop and under S loop. I can and may use the chirality terms, but at this moment I feel they are simple enough for understanding.
Why reinvent the wheel. Chirality can be applied universally - and it is a metric that is not dependent on the perspective.
There is no need to stipulate 'left', 'right', 'up' or 'down' when creating a singular lopp of a particular chirality.
The perspective of left/right only matters when manipulating and uniting two loops - as to which loop should be located from the persons left or right perspective.

Quote
The loops forms are shown in photos whether they are interlocking, superposed, symmetrical or asymmetrical. I have no intention to mention them
That's a very unfortunate attitude since these are important characteristics.

yChan, your work is appreciated!
However, it needs to be presented in a way that is meaningful to the lay reader.
Big data can be difficult to comprehend if it is not organized in a cohesive and meaningful way.

I have the distinct impression that you are not interested in taking onboard this feedback - so I will leave it at that.

siriuso

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Re: yChan's Working Notes - "Bends Classed By Starts"
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2019, 08:08:18 PM »
Hi dear all,

I have just updated this folder and hope you enjoy it.


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kGG0h_0QQ2eIxhEquySzNBUC0O9li1dv?usp=sharing


Happy Knotting
yChan