Author Topic: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?  (Read 324 times)

breadwild

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Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« on: April 18, 2019, 03:14:48 AM »
I'm working with a 1/4" nylon rope and tying a standard tautline or grip hitch, but neither is holding as securely as I'd like. I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?

Thanks!

Brad
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roo

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 07:10:35 AM »
I'm working with a 1/4" nylon rope and tying a standard tautline or grip hitch, but neither is holding as securely as I'd like. I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?

Thanks!

Brad

If you're just trying to hold tension on a non-critical application as you tie off, extra turns may give enough friction to hold with slippery or stiff material.

If the application is more critical, and you don't need to hold tension as you tie off, you probably want to look at a different breed of hitch, like a Gnat Hitch:

https://notableknotindex.webs.com/gnathitch.html

Loops may also be an option.  Can you share your application scenario?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 05:25:42 PM by roo »
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breadwild

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 04:57:36 PM »
Thanks for the tips.

I have actually tried a gnat hitch in the past, but not in this case. I'll check it out.

I really don't have an application, I'm just learning about knot tying and slowly understanding the terminology and philosophy. I practice during my breaks from the computer (I'm a coder). A great analog diversion.
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2019, 08:36:30 PM »
I tried and extra round turn (3 instead of 2) in the loop of the tautline, for instance, and it holds better. Is that considered best practice, to break with tradition, or might I just have the wrong knot?
It's perhaps a fallacy of inheriting practices from
a  time when materials were more similar --both
in surface friction and strength (per-size demands
were less).

The Blake's hitch (aka "ProhGrip" per me) was introduced
prior to Jason Blake's intro by Heinz Prohaska, and for it
he commented that for any ropes in which the hitch
seemed not to hold well on account of stiffness,
add an extra turn around the tucked tail;
but if slippage seemed to come from slipperiness,
to put extra turns in the single-strand-wrapping
*half*.  In short, he recognized that different ropes
might have different behaviors and that the knot
should be adjusted --as you have also realized.

Sometimes rather than adding a wrap in the hitch,
I *guard* the hitch with a half-hitch or full round turn
leading to the hitch --of course, one needs space for
this in what you're tying to.  These added turns will
take the full force, and are in a sense *tied off* by
the complete hitch they guard.

There is also the consideration of the particular form
of the wraps : i.e., it has been recommended that for
hitching onto rope (vs. a solid/rigid object) the version
in which the successive turn(s) is jammed between the
SPart and initial turn will hold better, more inclined to
put a bend in the line.  YMMV.  Of course, you could so
form the "guard" structure but use the non-jammed
full hitch behind it.

--dl*
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breadwild

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2019, 02:37:30 AM »
Quote
Sometimes rather than adding a wrap in the hitch,
I *guard* the hitch with a half-hitch or full round turn
leading to the hitch --of course, one needs space for
this in what you're tying to.  These added turns will
take the full force, and are in a sense *tied off* by
the complete hitch they guard.

Great point. See the attached image to see if I got it right (A = typical buntline, B = extra leading turn)
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ParLeijonhufvud

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2019, 08:33:09 AM »
I quite often use the tautline hitch on fairly slippery stuff -- mostly modern tent guy-line stuff, i.e 1,5--2.5 mm nylon -- and use a third turn as you suggest. The third turn adds sufficient friction for my needs, where two does not. For really important situations  -- e.g. winter tenting in the mountains, where you can have a strong wind jerking on it for hours --- I rely on the plastic magic of Hillebergs adjusters: adjustment and firm locking.

breadwild

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Re: Extra rounds for slippery ropes?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2019, 02:27:44 PM »
Quote
I quite often use the tautline hitch on fairly slippery stuff

I have found the adjustable grip hitch to hold better than the tautline and I looks a little tidier IMO.
https://www.animatedknots.com/adjustable-grip-hitch-knot

Brad
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