Author Topic: Second order retucked/enhanced harness midline loops and the equivalentEOL loops  (Read 613 times)

tsik_lestat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Ashley claims that the harness 1050 loop is not secure under all circumstances and it is not recommended as a midline loop.There are a few ways to secure the harness loop and avoid those slippage issues reported by Ashley, making it a safer and more practical knot.This could be done by retucking the harness loop, which is illustrated for comparison reasons to the left of the photos 1,2 below, from the side where the red arrow is pointing to.The nipping component, is being kept as simple as possible and the collar component is a marlin spike and a figure eight, forming the complete knots shown in photos 1,2 accordingly(right side).These loops could also be tied as end of line loops, keeping the nipping structure in this simple form.

However, there is a more interesting approach shown in photos 3,4 which i think deserves the title enhanced harness midline loop.The knot consists of interwoven crossing knots where the collar and nipping components are equivalent to the unknot and the two ends are facing opposite directions.I believe this is an EEL loopknot and the reverse midline loop is illustrared in photo 4 with the corresponding simple harness loop.Considering this midline loop as the base knot, there are several ways of creating some decent end of line loops,loaded in different ways.There is some difficulty to dress the knot especially in stiff ropes, but once tied right,it is a rock solid,jam resistant,stable midline loop loaded from any of the three directions.I guess there are a lot of ways of tying it and one of them is shown in my next reply.

tsik_lestat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Focusing on the midline loops shown in my previous reply, here is a method of tying the enhanced harness loop.
First you form a loop, a bight and second loop as shown in photo 1 from left to right.Then the right loop is placed on the left loop as shown in photo 2 and the bight passes like a toggle between the loops with the following pattern~up,down,up,down.If the left loop is placed on the right and the same steps are followed, then the reverse loop is created.
This is a simple easy to remember method of tying and once mastered it can be tied, dressed and inspected in a rather quick way.

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
An interesting 'enhancement' to #1050.
But I'm not entirely sure if this offers anything beyond the performance capability of #1053 Butterfly...

tsik_lestat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
Thank you Mark!

I believe there are not so many midline loops in the knotting toolbox are there? :)

The 1053 butterfly, is indeed a stable secure midline loop, but i hear that it is not very easy to untie it,especially after beiing eye loaded,having some blocking issues.

However, an interesting feature of the EHL(enhanced harness loop) midline loop, are the 180 degrees U turns of the SP or the SE (depending on the form of the knot being used) in the core nub.This component,prevents the collar from closing too much and block, when the knot is heavily loaded and one can remove/loosen it rather easily, releasing then the pressure from the SP.

A good question might be, if such a component provides a means of constructing stable, jam resistant,  end of line loops(bowlines or not).I believe it does and to align with the title of this tread, i illustrate four different loading profiles of this knot ,as end termination loops(i am afraid there is no room for back sides or mirrors),which is another advantage of the EHL loop.

The first knot which is TIB, can be tied starting from a TIB 1010 bowline(tail inside eye and tucked back through the bight component of the bowline) and then retuck the eye through the SE to create the bottle/jug sling, which is topologically equivalent to this knot (this is a well known method of tying the bottle sling).Once the bottle sling is being formed, then with two flips downwards of the nipping loop of the bowline  and the upper bight encircling the eye of the bottle sling, we create the final knot.It is an easy transform and i repeat it is just two flips far from the bottle sling.

The same stands for the second knot,also TIB, but the difference is that you start from a reversed TIB bowline and then create a reverse bottle sling(if i may use the term), following the same steps.

The other two knots have different geometry ,but they retain their jam resistance with good ring loading profiles, as end termination loops.I tie them using crossing knots but i guess it is not the only way!!!

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Quote
I believe there are not so many midline loops in the knotting toolbox are there?

I apply a strict definition of what a 'Mid-line TIB knot is... and yes, in this context, there aren't so many.

Characteristics:
1. Can be tied without access to either end (ie 'TIB'); and
2. Remain stable and secure when bi-axially loaded (through loaded).

For example, the #1047 F8 is 'TIB' but, it is not stable when through loaded.
The #1047 F8 therefore fails to be categorised as Mid-line TIB, and instead is categorised as a fixed eye (loop) knot.

The concept of bi-axial loading refers to a state where load is aligned from SPart to SPart in a straight line (axially).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 06:01:26 AM by agent_smith »

tsik_lestat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
The artillery, man-harness loop, was primarily designed and used for eye loading applications and i think it is not suitable for bi-axially loading.The loop presented here, as an improvement,supports multidirectional loading and meets the characteristics of your strict definition of a midline loop.It even can be loaded as an end of line loop as i've showed in my previous reply,unlike F8,which you correctly stated and illustrated that it fails to be categorised as a midline loop.Few knots can do both,Span loop comes to mind along with Xarax great work on this loop.

Since you have mentioned the butterfly which can be tied as a bend, I thought to apply this technique to the EHL midline loop and create an asymmetrical bend.The tying method is the same,the eye is just replaced by the two ends, so there is no need of posting a photo about this structure.However, to overcome the weaknesses of an asymmetrical bend,(if there are any) and turning it to a symmetrical one, i ended up with this beautifull ,symmetrical, Zeppelin-like,Hugo bend A, tied by Xarax,presented in the following thread,in reply 50, https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4090.45, using the famous 69 method of tying :). I have not seen so far the transformation of this bend to a loop,illustrated in the following photos,which is a compact Zeppelin-like loop with the benefit of having no overhands in its structure,but non-TIB.I see some connections to all these knots and it should be expected, since they share some resemblance to each other.