Author Topic: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load  (Read 391 times)

jmlucassen

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Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« on: January 30, 2019, 08:35:17 PM »
SITUATION
I was tying together two ends of a rope across the open top of a crate, with a knot that would pull the two ends tight.
Someone suggested a square knot, but there's no way obvious way to draw it up tight while tying it.
I found that I could tie a shoelace bow, and my hands actually know how to draw it up tight while tying it, even in mid-air, but that seems like cheating.
So, later, I searched around online for a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load, but could not find anything.
OPTIONS
The best I came up with (inspired by the trucker's hitch) is to make a loop or noose on one end, put the other end through it, draw tight (with leverage) and finish with two half hitches. 
A noose seems better than a loop because it traps the other end, making it easier to keep it drawn tight while doing the half hitches.
QUESTION
Is there a better (or more standard) way to do this - stronger, easier to draw tight, and/or easier to untie?

SS369

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 08:49:15 PM »
SITUATION
I was tying together two ends of a rope across the open top of a crate, with a knot that would pull the two ends tight.
Someone suggested a square knot, but there's no way obvious way to draw it up tight while tying it.
I found that I could tie a shoelace bow, and my hands actually know how to draw it up tight while tying it, even in mid-air, but that seems like cheating.
So, later, I searched around online for a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load, but could not find anything.
OPTIONS
The best I came up with (inspired by the trucker's hitch) is to make a loop or noose on one end, put the other end through it, draw tight (with leverage) and finish with two half hitches. 
A noose seems better than a loop because it traps the other end, making it easier to keep it drawn tight while doing the half hitches.
QUESTION
Is there a better (or more standard) way to do this - stronger, easier to draw tight, and/or easier to untie?

Good day jmlucassen.

I, too, like the idea of a noose in place of the loop, but, after tightening the affair have sometimes found some difficulty in the untying, especially the noose.

Since I like to tie knots, I will generally use the versatackle. Yes, it is more tying and uses more cordage, but I like the way it works. It allows for more applied tension, self locks to some degree and may not even need to be secured further depending on the application.
Here is a link to a site that details the tying.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Versatackle_knots

See if you enjoy its performance.

SS

jmlucassen

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 09:46:05 PM »
Thanks for your reply.
Upon doing more research I realized that a simple "butcher's knot" will do - joining the ends of two separate ropes rather than two ends of a single rope.
https://www.animatedknots.com/butchers/

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 10:24:39 PM »
Thanks for your reply.
Upon doing more research I realized that a simple "butcher's knot" will do - joining the ends of two separate ropes rather than two ends of a single rope.
https://www.animatedknots.com/butchers/
Yes, that can give one a way or an idea to further
work with.

Sometimes I, too, put an eye in one end and then
pull the other end through for tensioning, and holding
it in place while forming a sheet bend with the tail
beyond where I'm gripping it to hold --something
that obviously can handle only so much tension,
and which yields a bit of the gain as the sheet bend
sets, but ... it often suffices.

One could also try hitching one end to the other with
a rolling hitch and pulling tension on the end being
hitched, pushing on the knot; as one gains tension one
gains frictional resistance to pulling more tension ... .


--dl*
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jmlucassen

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 07:13:22 PM »
Dan, I've seen this hinted at elsewhere - tying a sheet bend to an eye - but I don't see how to do that under tension.
Is it simply to tie the sheet bend, and then repeatedly tug on the other end where it emerges from the eye, and then tugging on the tail to take up the slack?
Or is there more it?

I suppose one drawback of the rolling hitch method is that it falls apart is tension is released  :-\

blgentry

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 07:13:56 PM »
It sounds like you probably want more tension than a constrictor or double constrictor knot; but those are options.

But the real winner here in my mind is the Canadian Jam Knot.  You can get it REALLY tight.  Yet it loosens up pretty easily.  It's also quite easy to tie.  The "ratcheting action" is the key to getting it nice and snug; particularly around compressible stuff.

https://www.animatedknots.com/arbor/index.php
https://youtu.be/IdAxWVvHWqY

Well, maybe not actually.  I just tried this on a cardboard box that was very full with hard objects.  The knot tightened, but also lost tension a little when released.  I guess this knot is more suited to compressible work like cloth or similar.  For a crate I'm not sure it's a good fit.  Plus the knots in it do get a bit jammed.  Easy to remove from the load, but hard to untie the overhand knots that are used to make it.

Maybe screws or nails are the best for a crate.  Even though I love knots.  :)

Brian.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 07:22:28 PM by blgentry »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2019, 10:14:02 PM »
Dan, I've seen this hinted at elsewhere - tying a sheet bend to an eye - but I don't see how to do that under tension.
It's a matter of relative forces to pull tight & hold.
IFFFF one can hold the tension with one hand,
then the forming of the sheet bend's wrap & tuck
can be made, and with some reduction of size of
the loop this forms, then pulling hard on the tail
to set it --with some tension yield from the now-released
SPart.  So it's a question of working with something
that can be so tensioned & held in hand; it's not a
general solution.
More general, and incorporating the rolling hitch
qua "tautline hitch" --well, that name says is!-- is doing
the pull-through-eye tensioning and tying off the tail
with the hitch.  So, like your 2HHitches solution but
now with the hitching coming just anywhere out along
the tensioned line pulled through the eye.  (And sometimes
I put in a *guard* half-hitch to take off some force on
the working end.)
Quote
I suppose one drawback of the rolling hitch method is that it falls apart is tension is released  :-\
?!  No, that hitch should stay tied; there are ways
to help with that (stopper in the tail, or other).
YMMV per materials.


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Harold Kahl

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 01:47:23 AM »
The Gleipnir may work in this situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F1FXdBKBHQ

DerekSmith

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Re: Seeking a bend that can be tied and/or tightened under load
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 03:49:14 PM »
The Gleipnir may work in this situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F1FXdBKBHQ

I agree Harold, the 'G' knot could be ideal.  Although is virtually impossible to tie the 'G' knot under tension, it is an ideal adjustable tension knot, easy to tie, non jamable, and perhaps it greatest asset is the ability to easily retension if the load or bundle is reduced in use.

The image I posted a while ago (in knots in the wild) of a bundle of broomsticks bound by a 'G' knot has since been adjusted as the broomsticks are being sold, simply by pulling on the WEs.

Derek