Author Topic: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)  (Read 653 times)

jmlucassen

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Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« on: October 13, 2018, 08:18:21 PM »
I have a question about versions of the zeppelin loop.

So far I have seen descriptions of two versions, for example on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_loop:
- the Rosedahl loop, which is very asymmetrical, and
- an (unnamed) version "where the end seems to be the continuation of the main part, and both ends of the loop seems to be vertical to the main part".
This latter version is symmetrical: the "figure eight" of the zeppelin knot is aligned with the standing end and the working end, and is the legs of th eye are perpendicular to it.

It seems to me that there is a third version, in which the "figure eight" of the zeppelin knot is aligned with legs of the eye, and the standing and working ends are perpendicular to it.  (SEE PICTURES 1 and 2).
This version seems to have two advantages:
- it does not extend as far into the loop
- the working end can be tucked under one of the "crossing turns", thereby keeping it out of the loop (SEE PICTURES 3 and 4).

My questions are:
- is this a known knot?  is it documented or named somewhere?
- what is known or can be inferred about the properties of this knot?

Thanks in advance,
a new member

roo

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 09:32:12 PM »
Placing 100% of the line load on what is usually the tail of the Zeppelin Bend is usually a bad idea as it tends to jam.  This tail-loaded inverse of the Zeppelin Bend doesn't have a name because of this disadvantage that dissuades use. 

If that inverse bend had a name, it would likely get applied to the loop.  Neither see any significant use.
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jmlucassen

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 10:05:30 PM »
Your response makes sense, but I'm curious - is there any evidence that loading the bend in this way would tend to jam? 

roo

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2018, 11:03:18 PM »
Your response makes sense, but I'm curious - is there any evidence that loading the bend in this way would tend to jam?
It has happened to me during testing.  Feel free to test it yourself.  With some small nylon rope, you can apply a good amount of force by holding down a bar under your feet while holding another bar above your knees in a seated position while you perform a calf-raise to tension the line.  Be sure to keep your head clear of the line of action.

If you want a more precise loading, you can use weights to reach the working load limit of some small rope.
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 11:44:09 PM »
It seems to me that there is a third version, in which
the "figure eight" of the zeppelin knot
is aligned with legs of the eye, and the standing and working ends are perpendicular to it.
  (SEE PICTURES 1 and 2).
...
My questions are:
- is this a known knot?  is it documented or named somewhere?
- what is known or can be inferred about the properties of this knot?

What I see --esp. via pic.#2-- is not a zeppelin knot
but SmitHunter's bend loaded on one tail and the
usual SParts being eye legs.  And both of these named
knots (i.e., Z. & S.H.) entail overhands not fig.8s;
but perhaps you mean simply the sort of overall look
of the knot, collar-opposite-collar being '8'-like.

(and "alternate" => "alternative", please!)

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jmlucassen

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 10:43:20 PM »
Dan, thanks for your comments and instructive use of terminology.

agent_smith

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2018, 08:43:37 AM »
Hello jmlucassen,

What Dan is saying is that he thinks you have confused the #1425A Riggers bend with the Zeppelin bend
I have attached a photo to illustrate the differences.

Your photos are not perfectly clear...but, it does appear that Dan is correct in thinking you have tied #1425A Riggers bend (aka Hunters bend).

To close out on this matter, can you confirm if Dan is correct (or not)?

jmlucassen

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Re: Alternate zeppelin loop (rotated 90 degrees)
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 04:30:14 PM »
My apologies for the delay in responding.  Unfortunately I no longer have the actual knot, just the photos.
My intent was to create a zeppelin bend, but looking at the photos now I think I may have inadvertently created a rigger's bend.
Lesson learned: use ropes of different colors, or at minimum, rope with a pattern that can be traced through the knot.