Author Topic: Testing Lee's Knots  (Read 759 times)

alanleeknots

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Testing Lee's Knots
« on: August 27, 2018, 10:35:44 AM »
Hi All,
       Testing my new knots, Lee's Marlinspike loop is a lovely simple little knot,
       so easy to tie and untie, compact, handed extreme load very well.
       Will do more test on difference ropes.

       Lee's Overhand knot loop, look nice and the line tuck in nice and smooth, It handed heavy load quite well,
       The collar near standing part are little short, If you dress the collar very tie, it may jam on extreme load.
       Of cause difference sizes and material will react difference too, need more test.  謝謝 alanleeknots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iye0tGpG3q0&t=4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbidbilaV8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z139yivj9Uc

Some cannot attach picture.

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 10:58:41 PM »
Hi All,
         Just like to dig in a little more, I have two lovely loops here Overhand knot and Figure 8 knot loop
         seems like both loops can handed lots more weight, I will test it. 謝謝 alanleeknots

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 04:12:45 AM »
Hi All,
        Both loops are performing excellent with quarter inch solid braid rope.
Have a few points here of my strategy create these loops.
1. The incoming eye leg tie a half hitch around one side of the overhand and figure 8 knot. it creates "counter force again standing part, also incoming eye leg in line with standing part, "make more room to release the collar"
2. "Tail rotation effect" lengthen the collar.
3. The Nub is little long, just like you try to bend a piece long steel rod, " push and bend the collar upward and lengthen it.
I have more to said but my English is limited, It will be nice to have Xarax here to do the analysis on these knots.
Will do more test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t94wb_mh8q8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcsANUslcdM
謝謝 alanleeknots.

KC

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 01:17:22 PM »
These are great explorations and data, thanx!
.
i think we see some different results on different ropes from rope stiffness: how much deformity in most loaded parts affects rope efficiency /'strength'
And for hitched or gripped part of line:recieving
How force is carried thru rope device:
A>is all of force carried on outside parts of line that forces hit directly >>or is some/all of force carried inside of line where outside reaches thru /to not direct access
B>Frictions on core to outer>>do core/kern move separately or handle as 1?
C>Does rope collapse under load as if coreless?
.
And for type of force passed to above receiving parts:sending
A>force thru hitch pinch like SheetBend pinching thru rope parts as a force pinning bolt type imagery
B>force grabbing around around outside as more of a grip inline like Surgeon's or Prusik, rather than pinning force thru w/Sheet
>>then if grabbing outside, frictions between rope parts comes into play.
.
i have done own break tests in woods of mostly smaller available stuff
>>Bowline at both ends of line, 1 Bowline tail-in, 1 tail-out like Sheet Bend left/right and pull between like carabiners.
Some ropes like innie Bowline, some outie  >> consistently
So, next guess is rope construction and how favorably receives force
>>this could immediately fold back to Left or Right Sheet Bend shwoing better for different members..
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2018, 07:55:25 AM »
Hi All,
         KC thanks for your reply, I am glad you like my work.
         You have a great day. 謝謝 alanleeknots.
       

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 11:25:08 AM »
Hi All,  I have another lovely loop here " Pretzel loop"  quite similar to Lee's Marlinspike loop,
           This Pretzel loop may be little hard to tie but  is more secure then  Lee's Marlinspike loop.
           when I have time will test it,   謝謝 alanleeknots.
       
         
             
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 01:38:14 AM by alanleeknots »

Knutern

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 04:14:00 PM »
Sure, the Lee 's Pretzel loop isn't easy tied - and thus (for me at least) also hard to learn w/o looking at the picture.

I wonder if there is a more clever way to tie it?
I'm aiming for knots that is secure, AND that is easy to untie.

knotsaver

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2018, 07:40:43 PM »
Sure, the Lee 's Pretzel loop isn't easy tied - and thus (for me at least) also hard to learn w/o looking at the picture.

I wonder if there is a more clever way to tie it?

Hello Knutern,
I will try by words: in the loop there is a nipping structure and a Blackwall Hitch finish.
You can obtain the nipping structure by starting with the initial steps of the Butterfly Loop: look at ABoK #1053 right diagram and try to obtain the nipping structure! ;) (you will obtain the mirror image by using ABoK diagram)
Ciao,
s.
p.s. nice structure Alan!

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2018, 01:33:20 AM »
Hi All.  This time I am totally wrong, I thought no problem with Lee's Marlinspike loop, the Pretzel loop will do well too.
Just so busy with important issue  and careless didn't border to test it before I post it.
Today I do some quick tests, I found out it just can't handed heavy weight with climbing rope and it's jam bad, not too bad for 1/4" solid braid nylon rope, but still will jam on maximum load.
I totally underestimate the nipping force generate by the pair of interlock nipping loop it tightens the nub so hard. just unable to untie the loop.
Lesson lean, just can't judge by how good it looks of a knot , only through test than can tell the true of a knot.
 謝謝 alanleeknots.
       

knotsaver

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2018, 08:26:05 AM »
...
I wonder if there is a more clever way to tie it?

Hello Knutern,
I will try by words: in the loop there is a nipping structure and a Blackwall Hitch finish.
You can obtain the nipping structure by starting with the initial steps of the Butterfly Loop: look at ABoK #1053 right diagram and try to obtain the nipping structure! ;) (you will obtain the mirror image by using ABoK diagram)


...only words  ;)
in practice you will obtain as a nipping structure a variant of the Gleipnir in wich both tails enter from the same side ;)
...and then so you can try with the Gleipnir, with the Constrictor...
Ciao,
s.

tsik_lestat

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2018, 03:49:29 PM »
per Alan Lee

I have tried those variations before, maybe not with a pretzel but with a rather straight forward interlocking mechanism!Adding a pretzel structure,a very effective locking mechanism as xarax emphasizes in his relative thread with his good looking pretzel-like loops https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4464.0 , i think that increases a lot the locking power of this interlocking mechanism causing maybe this jamming phenomena!
I have used a gripping crossing hitch(photo 1)(there is another one),similar to yours and one can realize that with a single pass of the WE holds very well,just returning with a slipped version(photo 2).
I have also created a fixed loop version(photo 3) which differs from your double passing WE(I have tried that too)!
I wonder would this structures jam as you are reporting with the pretzel like loop?
I guess, somehow we shall find out!

DerekSmith

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2018, 10:42:31 PM »
@ tsik_lestat

Could you provide a view of the rear shot of the top image please.

Derek

DerekSmith

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2018, 11:18:42 PM »
Hi alanleeknots, congratulation on your Pretzel loop, I really like it



It is well designed, based on two Carrick components, so it is secure, strong and jam resistant.  It has a simple hitch (nipping helix) as its locking component, the WE of which is tightly gripped by the full load of the SP , the load of one of the loop legs and  simple hitch locked by the return leg load.  A nice touch, is that after use, once the nipping helix has been released and removed, the whole of the knot simply falls to nothing.

This really is a beauty and so easy to tie - midline make two twists and fold the loop over line (much like the Alpine Butterfly method).  This forms the two opposing Carrick components and the central 'hole' that the locking hitch is going to go through.   Make the loop, then feed the WE through the locking hole, wrap it around the two carrick backs and feed it back through the hole with the WE on the loop side of the hitch (so the loop leg load pinches the WE.  and there you have it - lovely knot that I am fairly sure is so memorable, I will probably use it and teach it.

Derek

alanleeknots

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2018, 11:45:15 AM »
Hi All,
        Per tsik_lestat, I did a quick test, It will jam, I think it only good for light weight.

        Per Derek, Thanks you very much for test and the nice comment.

        Since you like these kind of loop, I rig up two more loops for now, if you guys like it I will rig up more.
         謝謝 alanleeknots.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 04:59:27 PM by alanleeknots »

DerekSmith

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Re: Testing Lee's Knots
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2018, 05:50:12 PM »


This little beauty was quite a surprise.  So simple, yet devastatingly effective.  The OH component naturally transforms into the XCarrick component - but that additional twist, forming an adjacent helix is pure inspiration, it 'balances' the alignment of the knot, yet retains total simplicity of tying.

Its only weaknesses is that it jammed easily, especially under ring loading, and on release, it leaves an OH knot on the cord.

My favourite is still the Pretzel.

Derek