Author Topic: Barrel sash knots - historical  (Read 392 times)

JakubTyl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Barrel sash knots - historical
« on: August 01, 2018, 01:13:05 PM »
Hello,

I would like to ask some experienced users about some historical knots and materials. Maybe you have full or partial information, but anything could help.
Hussar Barrel Sash had multiple types of knots. At the moment I am interested in two styles of knots and one knot button which may be the same type of knots (same technique) but different size.
In pictures there are:

  • Set of large knots - set of similar "barrel" knots
  • Large and small - on that Sash there is a smaller knot A and larger "barrel" knots B, should be the same technique as the set of large knots
  • Button knot - This is supposed to be a knot probably wrapped around some wooden button

I think that all these knots are some variations of Turks head, Gaucho knot or something like that. And I basically think they are all made by the same technique but just different lenghts. What do you think is the technique?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 01:16:44 PM by JakubTyl »

PatDucey

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 278
  • IGKT Pacific Americas Branch
Re: Barrel sash knots - historical
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2018, 05:33:45 AM »
On your photo of the Set of large knots, three of them are Turks Head knots.

On the left is a Turks Head of 19 Leads and 6 Bights, and 5 plies.  Four of the plies form the structure of the knot, and the darker cord is added later to give the knot a highlight.  Note that the highlight switches sides of the plies with each pass.  This gives the knot a horizontal zig-zag pattern.

The two on the right are Turks Heads of 13 Leads and 4 Bights.  The one with the gold highlight has 6 plies and the one with the darker highlight has 7.  Note that the highlight switches sides of the plies the same as the 19L x 6B.  I think I see a place on the knot where there are 8 plies.  This is probably where to find the ends of the line.

The blue knot in the middle looks like it might be half hitching, or perhaps sinnet, but I would need to hold it and see where the ends are to get a better idea.


On your photo of Large and small knots, these are also Turks Head knots.

Item A appears to be a Goucho knot, or a Pineapple knot.  This is where a Turks Head is tied in a single color, and then a highlight is added in an interweaves that creates a pattern.  Different interweaves will create different patterns.

Item B appears to be a Turks Head knot of 19 Leads and 6 Bights with three plies.  The darker highlight line switches which side of the plies it is on to give the horizontal zig-zag pattern.  If the highlight didn't switch sides of the plies, the zig-zag would be vertical.


The Button knot is a Closed End Turks Head knot, or Globe knot.  If tied in hand, the original knot was probably a 15 Lead by 8 Bight Turks Head.  Using the original Turks Head as a guide, a new line is interwoven into the original knot and after each pass the working end either follows the bight, or changes course, skips over a bight, and re-enters the knot following a new path.  When the second line finishes tying a new knot, the original Turks Head line is removed, and the globe knot remains.  Then you add plies, cover an object, and tighten it up.  This sacrificial method can be used to create complex Turks Head mats as well as spheres.  You can also create a jig where you can tie the knot directly and save a lot of time.  If this is a mass-produced knot, I imagine that a jig was employed.

Pat
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 05:37:39 AM by PatDucey »

JakubTyl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Barrel sash knots - historical
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 08:14:21 AM »
That is amazing analysis. Thank you very much.

I would like to ask further about the plies in the Set of large knots. You said that 4 plies form the structure. I presume the 4 plies would be used as a one strand and not tied into the knot one by one?

PatDucey

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 278
  • IGKT Pacific Americas Branch
Re: Barrel sash knots - historical
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 07:45:55 PM »
A Turks Head knot has a starting and ending point at the same place, it is a continuous line that appears to have no ends.  Since the working line ends where the standing line enters the knot, the working end can follow the overs and unders of the knot until the desired number of plies are laid down.  On the large Turks Heads, most likely the plies that are the same type of line is a one single continuous line.  It can be tied with multiple lines, but then it would mean more ends to hide in the finished knot.

Pat