Author Topic: A Simple Locked Bowline  (Read 1466 times)

alanleeknots

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Re: A Simple Locked Bowline
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2018, 04:47:52 AM »
Hi All,
        Mobius, Thanks for sharing your TIB tying method, you do come up a good TIB tying method for this Simple bowline
        variation. This variation is good enough for general use, it do offer little more secure, and also when you handle and
        shacking this knot it does not come apart as easy as the Standard bowline, except as Mark have mention for
        vigorous cyclic loading or critical use.  謝謝 alan lee.

Mobius

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Re: A Simple Locked Bowline
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2018, 05:14:14 AM »
Hi All,
        Mobius, Thanks for sharing your TIB tying method, you do come up a good TIB tying method for this Simple bowline
        variation. This variation is good enough for general use, it do offer little more secure, and also when you handle and
        shacking this knot it does not come apart as easy as the Standard bowline, except as Mark have mention for
        vigorous cyclic loading or critical use.  謝謝 alan lee.

Thank you, Alan. I do appreciate this positive comment, it brightened my day :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 05:26:52 AM by Mobius »

agent_smith

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Re: A Simple Locked Bowline
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2018, 12:16:05 PM »
per Mobius:
Quote
I have been chastised (in another thread) for daring to give a decent name to a knot that I found on my own

! To chastise is to severely reprimand someone.
Nobody had done that. I think you are imagining something that doesn't exist.
I merely posted Xarax's comments. I am not sure how the dots were joined to lead to a conclusion of being chastised.

per Mobius:
Quote
There is way too much intellectual snobbery exercised by the old guard on this site sometimes.
Wow, I think Xarax is simply pointing you toward some knot structures from several years ago.
I personally haven't had time to compare in detail those that Xarax presented versus your creation.
I dont think anyone is intending to be a snob or to convey snobbery.
I think you are creating a situation which doesn't actually exist.

I'll check if Xarax intended to cause emotional harm or to convey intellectual snobbery (but I can imagine the answer already).

If I may provide a suggestion please?
Xarax is passionate about knots and likes to advance our collective knowledge - and he likes to share and collaborate, not destroy others in the process.

I like accuracy - and that includes the historical record (look t my paper on the Zeppelin bend where we try to unlock who actually first 'published' that bend). No people were harmed in the process :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 12:17:24 PM by agent_smith »

agent_smith

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Re: A Simple Locked Bowline
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2018, 01:29:14 AM »
I have received some further comment from Xarax per the simple TIB Bowline presented by Mobius.

Per Xarax...
Quote
Mobius, thank you for your good work - and it is good to see others on this IGKT forum who are willing to make new discoveries and advance our understanding of knots and knotting :)
I only ask that you please re-examine the links I had previously provided and, in addition, could you please examine the knots presented in this link: http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4603.msg29705#msg29705 (Fourth picture). I am providing these links in good faith.

Additional comment by Per Xarax...
Quote
I do not believe the structure you had presented is deserving of the title 'locked'. I had been investigating and searching for simple locked Bowlines myself that were also TIB - and the act of feeding the tail through the collar was a known technique for transforming a previously non TIB Bowline into one that is TIB. More is required to lock down a structure than a simple upwards tail maneuver - for example, please look at the Ampersand Bowline where the tail is firmly clamped. This clamping force is provided by multiple elements within the structure - and is certainly deserving of the title 'locked Bowline'.

I also found these very wise words from Sweeney (originally posted 15 November 2015) which I hold in high esteem:
quoted from Sweeney: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5564.msg37785#msg37785
Quote
You should be proud - you discovered this bend by yourself and the fact that someone else got there first should not diminish your achievement. There is an argument that no knot can ever be really described as "new" since knots have been around for so long who is to say that someone else isn't actually using a "new" knot somewhere in the world?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 01:59:33 AM by agent_smith »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A Simple Locked Bowline
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2018, 08:47:23 PM »
I also found these very wise words from Sweeney (originally posted 15 November 2015) which I hold in high esteem:
quoted from Sweeney: Link: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5564.msg37785#msg37785
Quote
You should be proud - you discovered this bend by yourself and the fact that someone else got there first should not diminish your achievement. There is an argument that no knot can ever be really described as "new" since knots have been around for so long who is to say that someone else isn't actually using a "new" knot somewhere in the world?

As I just stated in some other thread, musing over some
child's --undeniably unknowing-- playing leading to their
*new* knots.
We can however see *invention* as a double-edged,
Janus-faced (w/good & bad sides) thing :: i.e., that
all this invention comes at the expense of researching!
On the Net, it has long been that sometimes a questioner
is chided for not doing prior searching for extant answers
to her question ; and yet one can argue that the faster
way is to (re-)ask and get an immediate, search-time-free
response (and admittedly one can waste much time weeding
through all the returns that come from a search).  Sometimes
the response is a bit of compromise :: that a wise responder
then points to the best prior research to be perused (and so
doesn't have to re-state it anew).

(-;