Author Topic: Scouts  (Read 1232 times)

Brianne163

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Scouts
« on: June 23, 2018, 06:42:27 AM »
Hi Folks
I have been asked to run a small knotting workshop for our local Sea Scout cubs. Not sure how many will be there but am guessing approx 20.
I would appreciate any help/comments from anyone who has done this.
The knots will be basic. My main concerns are that when I have done any sort of knotting workshop with adults, they all seem to need individual attention to make headway.
It is possible that there may be some leaders who can assist.
Basic whipping
Reef
Bowline
Clovehitch
Sheetbend
Sheepshank
Regards
Brian
Brian Taylor  (MRM)
Hervey Bay Historical Village & Museum
13 Zephyr St. Scarness
Tel. (Home) 07-4124 6526

Sweeney

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 08:42:59 AM »
In my experience your biggest problem will be boredom. I recommend that rather than teach knots in isolation try and devise some simple problem scenarios where knots will help provide a practical solution. And try and be at least a bit innovative (is there really a need for a sheepshank?). Have a look at the Zeppelin bend (aka the b & q knot for an easy tying method) and Scott's lock for the bowline for example, One other perhaps - Blake's Hitch - great for a tent guyline apart from climbing. If kids are to become interested they need to see real practical applications. The classic knots you mentioned are generally not best of breed in modern synthetic rope (with the possible exception of the reef as a binder). One final point - try and work with small groups of no more than about 6 at a time - kids who are not interested can be very disruptive in a larger group. Best of luck!

Sweeney

Mik3e

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 07:48:06 PM »
If this was my class I'd start by asking each participant if there is a particular knot they want to learn, or a particular tying problem they have. This helps me assess their interest, and to adjust the material.

I'd start with a knot (or two) that has immediate practical value, such as the Double Shoestring Knot, ABOK #1216. Then I'd pick a knot in each category, Hitch, Bend, Loop, Double Loop, Binding, and Decorative. This creates a mental framework for thinking about and talking about knots. Then I'd expand as interest dictates, making adjustments 'on the fly'.

Good Luck,
Mike

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 08:12:20 PM »
The knots will be basic.

Basic whipping
Reef
Bowline
Clovehitch
Sheetbend
Sheepshank
Regards
Brian
The knots should be USEFUL --which tosses out the
sheepshank.
While the sheet bend can be useful, of course,
teaching the (what I'll call) reverse sheet bend,
with extra tuck
is more so.  This is the Lapp bend
but with the wrapping tail taken around and back through
the other end's bight at least one time, to make a full
circle.

(If the whipping included the strangle knot (where it
would be shown how to have more/fewer wraps as
one might need per circumstance), that would then
provide an option for "safety tie-off" for such knots
as the bowline and stopper for the clove hitch.


--dl*
====

Brianne163

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 06:55:40 AM »
Hi Guys
Thanks for the feedback.
I got the list of basic knots from a sea scouts site and depending on the actual group, I may be tied to those.
I have taken all your suggestions on board and am thinkg hard.
Cheers
Brian
Brian Taylor  (MRM)
Hervey Bay Historical Village & Museum
13 Zephyr St. Scarness
Tel. (Home) 07-4124 6526

NautiKnots

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 03:17:56 PM »
For most dinghy sailing, the basic three knots are:
  • Figure 8,
  • Bowline, and
  • Cleat Hitch
I hope that helps,
Eric

roo

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 11:26:47 PM »
The knots will be basic. My main concerns are that when I have done any sort of knotting workshop with adults, they all seem to need individual attention to make headway.
It may help if you have some clear printouts for them to follow.  You're welcome to look through some on my website and print out what you need:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com

I agree with the sentiment of tailoring the focus on what they are interested in, but also keep in mind that there may be better knotting solutions out there such that they may not know what they are missing.
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


Dan_Lehman

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 10:52:48 PM »
I agree with the sentiment of tailoring the focus on what they are interested in, ...
Whoa, that's not what was stated :: rather, that the knots
set might be in some way *preordained* --the ol' parroting
of nonsense endemic to general knotting--, and that's much
different than following some interest(s).

And along with and conceivably even in place of interest
is the criterion of materials : tying in fiddly little stuff,
in relatively inflexible & larger stuff, and so on.
E.g., tying webbing/tape might call for the water knot
(although it's interesting to see that the oft' decried "not
a bend!" sqaREef knot was once (and still?) used
by rockclimbers for joining tape ends).


--dl*
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roo

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 05:07:33 AM »
I agree with the sentiment of tailoring the focus on what they are interested in, ...
Whoa, that's not what was stated ::

I was referring to this sentiment:

If this was my class I'd start by asking each participant if there is a particular knot they want to learn, or a particular tying problem they have. This helps me assess their interest, and to adjust the material.
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".


Brianne163

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2018, 07:41:28 AM »
Thanks again for all the suggestions and comments.
I looked at "Home * Knotting Basics * Sea Cadet Knots" on this site (UK listing)
and it lists the recommended knot for sea cadets. It looks similar to the 6 knot challenge.
I am presuming that here in Australia there will be similar recommendations but I am waiting to hear back from the Leader.
I will let you all know how it goes when we actually have more info. I totally agree that keeping them interested for a period will be the biggest challenge.
I will be printing out some charts so they have something visual to refer to. Thanks for the link to Notable Knots.
Regards
Brian
Brian Taylor  (MRM)
Hervey Bay Historical Village & Museum
13 Zephyr St. Scarness
Tel. (Home) 07-4124 6526

asemery

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 12:41:10 PM »
The cubs will have a lot of fun making their rope.  No elaborate equipment - all you need is four sticks.  A few set-ups will keep them all busy and interested

Four Stick Rope Making

Mik3e

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 03:41:21 AM »
I agree with the sentiment of tailoring the focus on what they are interested in, ...
Whoa, that's not what was stated ::

I was referring to this sentiment:

If this was my class I'd start by asking each participant if there is a particular knot they want to learn, or a particular tying problem they have. This helps me assess their interest, and to adjust the material.

roo:
You are misrepresenting my comment. I did not say reduce to alter the base content.

If a student is interested in climbing then I'd have climbing examples. If a student wants to learn how to make a jug sling then I'd teach a jug sling.

Mike

roo

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2018, 07:07:04 AM »
I agree with the sentiment of tailoring the focus on what they are interested in, ...
Whoa, that's not what was stated ::

I was referring to this sentiment:

If this was my class I'd start by asking each participant if there is a particular knot they want to learn, or a particular tying problem they have. This helps me assess their interest, and to adjust the material.

roo:
You are misrepresenting my comment. I did not say reduce to alter the base content.

If a student is interested in climbing then I'd have climbing examples. If a student wants to learn how to make a jug sling then I'd teach a jug sling.

Mike
The splitting of hairs in this thread is getting ridiculous.    My "Tailoring the focus" is very similar to your "adjusting the material" phrase. 

Agreeing with someone shouldn't be this hard.
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Knucker

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2018, 11:09:03 PM »
Hi Brian,  are you still looking for ideas? I've been helping at my sons Cub Pack for a while now and have, what I hope, are a few ideas that might help.

Al

Brianne163

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2018, 01:56:17 AM »
Hi Al (Knucker)
Hi Brian,  are you still looking for ideas? I've been helping at my sons Cub Pack for a while now and have, what I hope, are a few ideas that might help.

Al
All suggestions are welcome.
Regards
Brian
Brian Taylor  (MRM)
Hervey Bay Historical Village & Museum
13 Zephyr St. Scarness
Tel. (Home) 07-4124 6526