Author Topic: Ranking of worst knots  (Read 2404 times)

Ulxaaf

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Ranking of worst knots
« on: March 16, 2018, 02:34:00 PM »
Lets make a list of our worst knows (from all of them - hitches, bends etc).
Choose minimum 1, according to your experience and if u like, write something about it.

My choice:

1. Taunline hitch - ABOK #1856

I never worked for me. I tried it with different kind of ropes, and it was a fail everytime.

SS369

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2018, 12:33:03 AM »
I'll contribute.

ABoK #1875 Blackwall hitch.
Not truly a "worst", but not one I'd trust, even temporarily.

SS

BelgianBight

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2018, 12:50:00 PM »
I fully agree on the Tautline hitch, I can't recall it ever not having slipped under tension.
The Farrimond friction hitch is far superior to it in my opinion.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2018, 09:27:49 PM »
1. Taunline hitch - ABOK #1856

I never worked for me.
I tried it with different kind of ropes, and it was a fail everytime.

!!?  Well, I use it often, and it *works* often.  (Absent
ABOK now, I don't know if the cited knot is one that
essentially makes an adjustable eye knot, or is purely
hitch to rigid or flexible object.)  I frequently tie it in
small cords, binding this or that to a backpack for
transport 'a velo.  I even use it in lubricated polyester
webbing, and here it's certainly a YMMV sort of thing,
where one considers needed security vis-a-vis forces;
it might need some help.

One can finish the knot with a slip-knot stopper (not
trusting that finishing half-hitch to hold); one can add
an additional turn, or even *guard* the knot with a
round-turn nipping loop taking the main load.

To you naysayers, what do you (try to) use it for that
it fails, and with what do you replace it?


As for my worst knots, there are probably many candy dates
among the innumerable *new* things I keep fiddling!


--dl*
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Ulxaaf

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2018, 12:04:37 PM »
 I used rolling hitch http://www.animatedknots.com/rollinghitch/index.php to hold my tarp once, near my house and it wasnt holding too long :)
Everytime I tie tautline only for testing/learning stuff, it fails miserably..
The construction of this hitch is not closed/compact. Last turn, that is separated with first two, makes this hitch weird and not trusty imo. Even tying this one is complicated for me because of that floppy structure. You have to pack and correct it a few times. Maybe I am doing it wrong..

On such ocasions, I use adjustable grip hitch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_grip_hitch or for best security blakes hitch.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 12:16:18 PM by Ulxaaf »

NautiKnots

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »
To my mind, knots are not good or bad in and of themselves - merely suitable or unsuitable for a given application.

I've used the tautline hitch (when appropriate) with success countless times over the past 40 years, and I've employed other knots when I felt it was not appropriate.

Regards,
Eric

ParLeijonhufvud

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2018, 09:42:10 AM »
1. Taunline hitch - ABOK #1856

I never worked for me.
I tried it with different kind of ropes, and it was a fail everytime.

!!?  Well, I use it often, and it *works* often. 

Same here, many hundreds of times. Now, for slippery stuff one needs to add a turn (or two) to make it hold. That said, the Farrimond looks interesteing.

I've also use the Midshipmans hitch (ABOK 1027), sometimes doubled,  with a hitch at the end, and that has worked fine.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2018, 10:47:04 PM »
I used rolling hitch http://www.animatedknots.com/rollinghitch/index.php to hold my tarp once, near my house and it wasnt holding too long :)
Everytime I tie tautline only for testing/learning stuff, it fails miserably..
The construction of this hitch is not closed/compact. Last turn, that is separated with first two, makes this hitch weird and not trusty imo. Even tying this one is complicated for me because of that floppy structure. You have to pack and correct it a few times. Maybe I am doing it wrong..
You don't say in what materials, but that matters.
(I do see slippage in that polyester cable-hauling tape
cited above.  Oh, and for that --and more often than not--
I use the version of building a coil and not the one you
link to where the follow-on turns are cast *up into*
the knot, and which form is recommended for hitching
to cordage vs. rigid objects.)

Extra security can come from putting in a full (2 x 360degrees)
turn and leading the tail up to THEN tie off with some version
of rolling h..
Yes, that closing & spanning half-hitch doesn't give good
security; to this, put in a stopper in the tail, possibly by
half-hitching with a bight and so making a slip-knot in
the bight tail (where pulling the slipped tail spills first
the stopper then the hitch!).

Quote
On such occasions, I use adjustable grip hitch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_grip_hitch or for best security blake's hitch.
I've had Blake's/Prohgrip hitch fail to hold, initially,
and to remedy that I *loosened* it a little, so to enable
the near/entry coil to open a bit (larger helix).  The thing
about such "coil-away" hitches is that they do depend on
such *expansion* to build grip, whereas the coil-back
ones depend on tightening the coil by tension through
the line, and are better at holding --if they can-- right
where tied.

--dl*
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Z

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 02:10:50 PM »
I agree on tautline. Blake Hitch is far superior.
If you're reading this, it's too late.

Z

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 03:05:40 PM »
Bowline is not one of the worst, but it is overrated. There are a thousand different add-ons to prop up this weak knot that cannot stand strongly on its own. Bowline is useful to me as a quick and easy loop, but I do not trust it for anything important. Because it is so popular and easy to tie, the general public mistakes this knot for being great.

For more important tasks, Double Dragon is a better option. Not only is the base structure more secure. It can also be tied in the bight or as an end loop. It holds a small tight bundle and does not jam.
If you're reading this, it's too late.

asemery

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2018, 11:23:50 PM »
I like the tautline hitch.  I use it in my initial pass to tie up a stack of newspapers.  It does not slip when i bring  the cord around perpendicular to that first pass to complete the bundle tying process.  Tony
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 05:00:51 AM by asemery »

FustiKnots

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 03:15:47 AM »
Taut Line Hitch is awful I agree

The Adjustable Grip Hitch is the best friction hitch though

I use it for everything

Z

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2018, 12:52:56 AM »
Clove hitch is terrible as a standalone hitch on a bar or other round anchor point. By terrible, I mean there has always been a better hitch for me to use in its place.

Clove is a fundamental knot that is taught to everybody learning about knots. However, Clove is only useful to me as a structure within another knot (e.g., working end of Buntline, working end of Roundturn and Two Half Hitches, etc.).
If you're reading this, it's too late.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2018, 03:15:11 PM »
I agree on tautline. Blake Hitch is far superior.
The rolling hitch (I take "tautline" to mean the eye
structure formed using it) has the advantage of gripping
*immediately* where it's set, whereas for coil-away
hitches such as the Prohgrip (Blake's) there often needs
to be some extension of the coil to build gripping force,
and this can make setting it snug to something difficult.


Bowline is not one of the worst, but it is overrated.
There are a thousand different add-ons to prop up this weak knot
that cannot stand strongly on its own.
Except that it does stand strongly on its own over
a vast amount of human experience!  You think you
can just ignore that, given its challenge in some
materials?  (And as for "weak knot", YMMV here, too.)


.:. One cannot attribute everything to the *knot*,
to the structure/shape, independent of tied materail!


--dl*
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Ranking of worst knots
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2018, 03:34:05 PM »
I should contribute a candidate to this thread which
is something I've (& Roo) argued against (!) ::
 the highwayman's hitch.

This supposed used-for-a-quick-getaway tying
is but one of myriad ways of forming such a hitch,
and it suffers from a vulnerability to capsize,
as the knot brings its heaviest loading upon
the "slip-bight" toggling the structure,
which can be folded and drawn through
the "frame" it's braced against.

My initial solution to redress this knot's problems
was to reverse the orientation of the 2nd-cast
bight (a common tying method works by bight
upon bight with a finishing tucked bight qua toggle) :
rather than put this 2nd-cast bight around
the first (which is formed in the SPart and will
deliver the hard force upon what it surrounds),
I put the 2nd bight into the first, and then the
toggling 3rd, "slip-bight" was tucked into this
2nd one.
.:.  The SPart bears heavily upon the "frame" bight
and less heavily against the slip-bight.

(There is now before me a variation in which the
SPart's bight is crossed, ergo a "turn" --indeed, like
the bowline's nipping turn--, and then the
tucks are as above in my revision.  For this hitch,
one needs essentially to pull out the slip bight
toggle AND the surrounded frame --the nipping
turn can grip it as with a sheepshank on its
own, so one will need to pull it out.
(I've not played with this enough to assess its
stability --something a quick check appears
to question!)


--dl*
====