Author Topic: Anchor Bend Variation  (Read 891 times)

Mik3e

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Anchor Bend Variation
« on: February 02, 2018, 04:11:42 PM »
Anchor Bend instructions include a half-hitch below the Anchor Bend to secure the working end to the standing part. Effective stability thus depends on the security of a half-hitch, which is thin protection. This variation, which I have not found documented elsewhere, incorporates the half-hitch within the Anchor Bend, thus rendering it more stable and secure without adding much bulk. Has this variation been seen before?

Mike

agent_smith

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2018, 04:51:19 AM »
The term anchor bend is actually technically inaccurate. I'm assuming that you are specifically referring to #1841 (Fishermans hitch or Anchor hitch). Ashley did refer to this structure as a 'bend' - which is a curiosity for knotting enthusiasts.
Technically, a 'bend' unites 2 ropes (ie end-to-end joining knot is a 'bend').

The figure 8 'securing' structure you have devised does not appear in Ashleys Book of knots (ABoK). Although Ashley does show variations at illustrations #1842 and #1843 (but nothing like the securing mechanism you have shown).

What is your intended application for the hitch? Are you a sailor?

Climbers and vertical rescue technicians would generally attempt to use #2047 (Tensionless hitch) if they can pass a rope around a sturdy 'rounded' type object - eg a tree or a structural post. The tensionless hitch is remarkably simple and operates on the principle of the 'capstan effect'.  #1841 Fishermans/Anchor hitch also requires access to a 'rounded' object - so given that both types of hitches require similar pre-conditions (ie the requirements for access to a sturdy rounded object) - its a no brainer for roping technicians to opt for #2047 Tensionless hitch.

Now the final piece of information is what to do with the loose tail. In #2047 Tensionless hitch, you can't just leave it dangling loose (unsecured).
The minimalist roping tech would simply use a strangled double overhand knot tied around its own standing part (SPart) ie as per #409 Poachers noose.

This could therefore be an alternative method of 'securing' the #1841 Fishermans/Anchor hitch - that is, to secure it by using a double overhand knot strangled around its own SPart - as per #409 Poachers noose.

Again, it would be interesting to know what your specific intended application is....for instance, are you are sailor? Are you intending to tether a dinghy to a boat wharf?

Your specific figure 8 securing method might be unique (not shown before) - there are a few blood hounds on this forum who will quickly determine if your particular variation has been shown before.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 05:12:10 AM by agent_smith »

Sweeney

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 09:51:46 AM »
I too have never seen this finish to the anchor hitch but wonder if it's always necessary to secure the tail at all. In a common variation the working end is taken through the round turn twice but I have seen several arborist's videos which show the original knot without the half hitch as a harness tie-in on the basis that it is secure enough (I can I think hear agent_ smith shudder in the distance!).

That said your variation is easy enough to tie for peace of mind.

Sweeney

agent_smith

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2018, 10:07:18 AM »
Hi Sweeney:_Laughing...
Indeed! I somehow doubt that Mik3e's intended application is for lead climbing.
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/6rjg5v/this_will_go_down_as_one_of_the_greatest_rock/

Always important to understand a persons context. Mik3e hasn't revealed much about his intended application on his variation of #1841.

Edit: Climbing shoes! (for a laugh) These shoes were not made for walking :)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 06:53:22 AM by agent_smith »

Mik3e

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2018, 07:35:31 PM »
I'm aware of the bend/hitch terminology issue and didn't intend to use Ashley's naming to open it. Nevertheless I'll call it a hitch to satisfy your concern.

When I'm out hiking I tie down the important things that could be a serious problem if they went missing, like a pocket knife, compass, whistle and spare keys. I use this hitch on the device and attach the other end of the line to an eyelet, button hole, or belt. I like the extra security where the hitch will be in place for years and the line will be flapping in the breeze, and it's nicely compact. I've also used it as a temporary hitch to things like my truck, only because it's often the first one that comes to mind, although it's certainly overkill.

You pointed out the 'figure 8' structure. I don't think of it that way because the half-hitch is the only part added. The rest of the figure 8 is a result of the normal threading of an Anchor Hitch.

Climbers, vertical rescue and arborists were also mentioned. If my feet were meant to be off the ground then no one would have invented shoes.

Mike

knotsaver

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2018, 08:45:20 PM »
The term anchor bend is actually technically inaccurate. I'm assuming that you are specifically referring to #1841 (Fishermans hitch or Anchor hitch). Ashley did refer to this structure as a 'bend' - which is a curiosity for knotting enthusiasts.
Technically, a 'bend' unites 2 ropes (ie end-to-end joining knot is a 'bend').

...for the sake of precision...
Ashley (ABoK #24-26 p.13) says: "The verb to bend is used with considerable latitude: a sailor always bends a line to an anchor or to a spar, and he also bends a sail to a spar or stay. But with the exceptions here noted, all knots called bends are for lengthening rope, by tying two ends together."

Ciao,
s.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 09:58:39 PM by knotsaver »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Anchor Bend Variation
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 01:48:21 AM »
The term anchor bend is actually technically inaccurate. I'm assuming that you are specifically referring to #1841 (Fishermans hitch or Anchor hitch). Ashley did refer to this structure as a 'bend' - which is a curiosity for knotting enthusiasts.
Technically, a 'bend' unites 2 ropes (ie end-to-end joining knot is a 'bend').

...for the sake of precision...
Ashley (ABoK #24-26 p.13) says: "The verb to bend is used with considerable latitude: a sailor always bends a line to an anchor or to a spar, and he also bends a sail to a spar or stay. But with the exceptions here noted, all knots called bends are for lengthening rope, by tying two ends together."

Ciao,
s.
Thanks for that clarity, to put some clearing cold water
on the fire of those over-enthusiasts!  CLDay also commented
upon the unjustified-by-usage pronouncement that "bends"
were end-2-end knots (and why I now use "e2e" --not exactly
a concise term, but ...).

As for
Quote
I too have never seen this finish to the anchor hitch but
 wonder if it's always necessary to secure the tail at all.
,
it's come to my awareness that in so many cases where
the knot has been presented, historically, it has come
with advice for seizing --which surprised me, too.  But
there might be prudence in this, as if you cyclically load
the knot, I think you can ratchet out material --and the
tail is only nipped by single turn, which only gets tension
(360deg-ish around the object) from the SPart AFTER
the SPart pulls on its collar and thus pulls on the tail!

A variation I like is the double-tucking of the tail
"One good turn deserves another!"), or the full wrapping
of the SPart by the tail before tucking it --which is hoped
to give adequate friction-gripping to hold a firmly set
knot against loosening.

.:.  I like the OP's knot quite a lot!

(It aligns the tail for really easy seizing,
although it makes that redundant!  :D )


--dl*
====
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 02:30:15 AM by Dan_Lehman »