Author Topic: Bowline with double Yosemite finish, more or less secure?  (Read 2232 times)

roo

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Re: Bowline with double Yosemite finish, more or less secure?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2017, 01:07:15 AM »
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Regarding my misgiving on the Scott's Lock Bowline, I had some capsizing events during testing.  The more elastic the line, the easier the capsizing.  Here are some frame-by-frames of the phenomenon in bungee:

The key here is to understand that no climber/abseiler/canyoner would ever use 'bungee' (highly elastic) cord as a means of human fall protection.
No one suggested that.  The only way I could photograph the capsizing mechanism was with bungee.  It happens way too fast in normal rope to capture since I don't have a high-speed video camera.

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When using normal EN 892 or EN 1891 kernmantel ropes, the phenomena roo reports simply doesn't happen.
Actually, the first time I had a capsizing event occur was in nylon kernmantel rope. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 01:14:39 AM by roo »
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agent_smith

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Re: Bowline with double Yosemite finish, more or less secure?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 05:20:47 AM »
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Actually, the first time I had a capsizing event occur was in nylon kernmantel rope.

With me, claims have to pass the sniff test.

And I'm smelling something very fishy here.

I'd like to see hard evidence of any insecurity and instability issues with Scotts locked Bowline.

When I say hard evidence - I am talking about a test result that is repeatable by others.
The test regime also has to be based on real-world loading profiles - and here I am specifically refering to the type of loading profiles that could occur in the context of human fall protection (eg lead climbing falls, or anchor systems used to build top rope climbing systems).

...

These kind of replies from roo also liven up what might otherwise just be another average day in the life of a forum.



« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 05:22:44 AM by agent_smith »

SS369

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Re: Bowline with double Yosemite finish, more or less secure?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 02:38:56 PM »
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Actually, the first time I had a capsizing event occur was in nylon kernmantel rope.

I am having a real challenge believing this statement. I have exhaustively tried to make the loop fail in all the ways I can. Even using a myriad of materials, as I have repeatedly stated. 
Unless someone intentionally leaves the parts on this modified bowline loose (not too smart) it performs excellently, imo. I can make most any knot fail that way.

As for a claim of difficulty dressing it, or challenging to confirm it is correctly tied, Wow! Better not tie knots. Or practice, practice, practice. As one should if they are going out on a limb or cliff face, etc.

Anyone else tried it out and had failures?

SS