Author Topic: Confusion regarding Bowline on Bight.  (Read 794 times)

anilkagi

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Confusion regarding Bowline on Bight.
« on: September 12, 2017, 02:49:18 PM »
Hello everybody.

I am new to the forum and to knots too. :)

I don't know if it is appropriate to start this thread here. Please forgive me if I have made a mistake & kindly guide me.

I will not be exaggerating if I say I haven't tied another knot except the Thumb knot in my life. Kindly bear with me.

Now it has come upon me to learn some knots. And I am endeavoring to  do so. Since I have nobody in my vicinity who can teach me climbing knots, I have to do self study. In this attempt, after getting to know a few knots, now I am stuck at the 'Bowline on the Bight' knot [Shortened to BoB].

I am confused regarding some matters about the BoB. I saw some videos. And I find that there are some differences in how the BoB knot is taught or shown. Below are a couple of shots from them.

https://filebin.ca/3a8fQMdug9M9/WikipediaBoB.jpg
https://filebin.ca/3a8fxSXWiWzB/YoutubeBoB.jpeg

While tying the BoB knot, initially we need to make a loop through which the bight is passed up from below. However I am at loss to know, whether while making the initial loop, I am supposed to make the loop, overhand or underhand and/or the loop towards my side or the opposite side? It so happens that there are four ways of making a loop as shown in the attached image below. [The image depicts a single strand of rope, but in the BoB knot there are two strands. I have used the single strand image for simplicity to show here.]

https://filebin.ca/3a8gKFdemS49/Loops.jpeg

I am confused as to which loop is the appropriate one for BoB knot. And I have tried all the four loops to make the BoB knot. Each one gives a different style of knot. Are they all BoB knots? And equally good & secure?

Now; I am aware that a slight change in the direction I would turn the rope to make a loop or insert the bight through the loop makes a huge difference and could lead to disaster.

Having said that, I wanted to know in the BoB knot, does the direction & side of the loop make any difference in the resulting BoB knot? Or it doesn't, because the BoB knot is tied in the middle of the rope?

Any guidance in this regard is of great value to me. Please kindly guide me in this regard.

Thank you.

Regards
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 12:42:08 AM by anilkagi »

Coding

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Re: Confusion regarding Bowline on Bight.
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 01:04:29 PM »
Hi,

I also use "BoB" as tie in knot for climbing.
The turndirection makes a difference.

"A knot is never nearly right; it is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong, one or the other: there is nothing in between." - Clifford W. Ashley

In my personal opinion I do not think it will be catastrophic in this case. JUST MY OPINION

you might be interested in http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/Bowlines_Analysis.pdf page 41
and http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/01_Knots.pdf

Here is the way I tie it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fccnozchognvd12/BoB.zip?dl=0

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Confusion regarding Bowline on Bight.
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 08:44:39 PM »
I also use "BoB" as tie in knot for climbing.
The turndirection makes a difference.
??  How?  There's a relation in orientation of the
parts of the knot, and this can be mirrored of course
w/o any effect physically unless one is looking into
the particular effects of laid rope's lay ... --and that's
unlikely in your case, and likely not of all so much
importance otherwise (YMMV).


Quote
"A knot is never nearly right;
it is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong, one or the other:
 there is nothing in between."
- Clifford W. Ashley
And oft'-quoted but mostly nonsense uttering by Ashley.
One can simply cite the myriad almost-alike variations
of knots as examples contradicting this silly assertion.
(More profoundly, one might even cite the variation
physically that a given knot has per materials/force!
E.g., the several ways in which the Ashley bend #1452
can be dressed --recently cited in these e-waves.)
((Or, per climbing/SAR/caving/canyoneering applications,
the many presentation of the popular fig.8 eyeknot in a
perfectly 2-dimensionally flat dressing that cannot long
survive in physical manifestation in round rope :: so,
there is no "exact" way of tying this given, to which
to judge!
cf. Agent_Smith's #1 bottom image here, cited for asymmetry:
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5987.0))


--dl*
====
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 08:48:08 PM by Dan_Lehman »

Coding

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Re: Confusion regarding Bowline on Bight.
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 12:29:22 PM »
I also use "BoB" as tie in knot for climbing.
The turndirection makes a difference.
??  How?  There's a relation in orientation of the
parts of the knot, and this can be mirrored of course
w/o any effect physically unless one is looking into
the particular effects of laid rope's lay ... --and that's
unlikely in your case, and likely not of all so much
importance otherwise (YMMV).

You are right! As long it is mirrored completely! If you mirror only a part of a knot, it will be another knot than intended.
I also agree, also if "BoB" is "wrong" I think it will not have a big effect.
But if you tie a sheetband like this it will not hold at all.