Author Topic: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite  (Read 2459 times)

KC

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Re: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 12:58:38 PM »
Will start other thread on theoretical model(s).
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Googled my own stuff and found this old pic of input force direction into Nipping lock to secure;
Also shows question about even in 'Jacked' position; some loss of Nip that eventually went to 'Cowboy' tail too, and always DBY(where makes less difference)
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And this was how used, a magical inversion, but spreading force on the knot, w/unloaded long tail (used to retrieve, not hold jig)
Being deployed in remote position/away from inspection; and overhead rigging with 2:1 loading position favored seizing down with bright electric tape that contrasted rope color.
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 09:34:22 AM by KC »
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SS369

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Re: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2017, 01:12:30 PM »
Mark, I use it in both scenarios, although my lead climbs have become fewer. This mainly due to climbing partners too busy with life and lack of experience.
So, why is it that you have not tried it or don't use it for your tie in Mark? Just wondering...

SS

KC

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Re: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2017, 03:27:20 AM »
For a Bowline with spread apart force in loop this is my choice:

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i think Bowline is based on a Half_Hitch, that is designed to pull INLINE;
not spread on cross-axis,  so would change orientation of tool to match force flow.
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So i think, as we switch to cross-axis loading across the loop;
we'd turn the inline structure of the Bowline to match.
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This might reference as a 'Cowboy' visually because 'tail outside of eye':
BUT;  mechanically it is the same structure; both 'tails'exit the same side; both tails sandwich between primaries.
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also note: how the longest tail; that is usually on outside of ring it forms,
>>is now on the inside; just as now it is the tail and not the sPart; 
>>thus another reverse, in this reverse situation!
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noting pull forces are different in this form; there is no sPart pull that is 2x tail/release(so more like Sheet Bend in that aspect)
>>not visualizing this as binding not rather a 'splayed'/spreading force
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strain spreading on loop would go to solid side primarily, from any stretch , shift, adjustment in Bowline as weaker leg i'd think.
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And to original question:
i'd 'DBY' any or these commonly by habit.
>>Double/Round Turn Bowline with Yosemite finish
(favor the inversion method for easier threading thru dbl.rings)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 03:37:40 AM by KC »
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
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agent_smith

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Re: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2017, 09:30:18 AM »
KC, the image you have posted is what is known as an 'anti Bowline'.
There are in fact 4 different versions of the anti-Bowline.

This phenomena you describe has long been known by members on this forum... particularly by Dan Lehman and Xarax.

Have a look at this web page: http://www.paci.com.au/knots.php
Download the Analysis of Bowlines paper (#2 in the table).

Mark G

KC

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Re: cowboy/ left handed bowline with yosemite
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 11:56:43 AM »
Thanx,once again nice collection!
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i originally learned this as a Jacked (to the side) Bowline ~25yrs ago;
to be  used for mounting pulley in tree(as shown) or other spreading on bowline ring.
i changed it to tail out; to follow standard Sheet Bend advice to construction, not eye.
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Yes, more a Sheet Bend type lock/only pulls on 1 side ;  than the Half Hitch of Nipping Loop; but both are for inline pulls down their loaded length i think.
i think best if tail out of ring/same side as long  tail left or right construction i see as same mechanix; but for same arguments.
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But, by any other name, this would be my choice for this type loading;
i favor standard tail in for normal loading as opposed to 'Cowboy';
Wouldn't use Cowboy in case had splay/ring cross loading;
would build normal or anti/jacked architecture towards how force would be carried by device; down the long/major axis of the knot construction.
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The Half-Hitch is decidedly for inline context of pulls down the line in contrast to most other lacings.
Most 'knots' are made to embrace host mount at right angle across;
for pulls inline can take same knot generally as 'anchor' and precede with Half (HH)Hitch 'angle  converter' to make fare.
The equal and opposite resistance to pull in HH allows this;
and so probably 'parent' Sheet Bend' construction(?).
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~