Author Topic: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:  (Read 1404 times)

JD

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 398
    • Solent Branch of the International Guild of Knot Tyers
Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« on: September 06, 2017, 01:14:20 PM »
My understanding of this knot is that when tying the two half hitches, they are both tied in the same direction. However, in this video, I see that the second hitch is opposite. Is this way also a round turn and two half hitches or actually called something else?


NautiKnots

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
    • Nauti Knots
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 02:08:35 PM »
That's a round turn and cow hitch.

JD

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 398
    • Solent Branch of the International Guild of Knot Tyers
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 02:12:01 PM »
Is a round turn and a cow hitch recognised as being a secure way of tying up a boat?

Sweeney

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 975
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 03:44:54 PM »
The answer is which is the more secure - a cow hitch around the SP or a clove hitch (the normal 2 half hitches)? I would be wary of this cow hitch variant - which was probably tied by mistake - in the video "Captain Bob" says "do the same thing again" - but then doesn't!!

Sweeney

NautiKnots

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
    • Nauti Knots
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 04:56:33 PM »
Is a round turn and a cow hitch recognised as being a secure way of tying up a boat?
No, although people often tie it unintentionally.

I'm a US Sailing certified sailing instructor, and we only teach the cow hitch (or more properly, ring hitch) for attaching single-piece jib sheets to the clew of the sail.  A round turn and two half-hitches is the standard hitch for temporarily mooring a boat to a piling.

Regards,
Eric

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3932
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 08:38:20 PM »
Is this way also a round turn and two half hitches or actually called something else?
Ashley calls it (IIRC) "reverse(d) hitches".  In this particular
case --i.e., with so short a tail that is taped rigid--,
his hitch looks good & secure (otherwise, way too short a tail!).

Frankly, with synthetic cordage --esp. smooth-sheathed braided--,
I'd go to a trio of "half-hitches", usually making the first two to be
in clove orientation (same), with the last one reversed (as that
seems to jam a bit better!?).  YMMV.

Another way is to *slip* the final tuck and then put in
a slip knot into this tail so for stopper effect against
loosening.  The tail will pull out both the slip-knot (if you've
tied that with the tail being just so) and the finishing half-hitch.

(Interesting to back up (left-side '<' arrow selector) a few videos
and find SAIL mag. presenting the fundamental cleat hitch (on
a curvy cleat, alas) incorrectly, to common practice; as pointed
out and 2nd'd & further agreed in comments, the line should've
been taken on the boat's/water side to the far end of the cleat!
)

--dl*
====

sgrandpre

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 09:17:38 PM »
I have heard people advocate for the "cow hitch" variant, saying that the more common same direction style can bind and be difficult to untie.  I suspect that the rope, conditions, and your application dictate which will work better for you, but I would recommend tying the half hitches the same direction unless you are having problems with binding in that specific circumstance. 

An example of a cow hitch style advocate:
https://www.morganscloud.com/2015/03/05/the-only-five-knots-you-need-to-know/

KC

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 290
    • latest project
Re: Round Turn and Two Half Hitches:
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2017, 08:17:53 PM »
i think of these as a class of finishes with choice of  lock(1st HH) and keeper(2nd HH) 
>>for particularly simple, single Turn and RT(Round Turn).
i think RT with either is ok, adding more security and possible strength.
.
ABok Lesson#1720: "If a spar is small a RT is preferable to a singleturn. It makes a stronger knot and dissipates the wear."
.
Also, as sgrandpre lends; counter-intuitively the Cow finishes are noted to be easier to untie than the Clove type finishes:
ABok Lesson#1713: "REVERSE HITCHES has less tendency to jam than Two HALF HITCHES (which has practically none) and is not a bad hitch for many purposes."
.
i assume these characteristics of these 'outies' (Cow#1672/Clove#1670)
>> also inherit to their sibling 'innies' (Lobster Buoy#1714/Buntline#1711 respectively).
>>these latter are more secure but yes harder to untie, and shamefully lesser known/more secure Lobster Buoy seems easier to untie than Buntline
.
i think  RT upgrade from simple/single Turn makes any of the above easier to untie, more secure, and possibly handle more wear etc.
.
Once looking at upgrading a (lesser)Turn to a RT(Real Turn oooops i mean Round Turn*);
and what lock(1st HH) and keeper(2nd HH) to apply to the mechanic;
i'd probably, accidentally flow from RT to Anchor to start by also passing Tail under original Turn when going for 1st HH...
.
Make  it a slip if worried about jamming.
Then , finish with a HH keeper of choice!
.
Being able to break any of these lacings down to an RT is nice in case untying loaded to lower or other wise pay out loaded line;
THEN can re-lock with the above previous methods; as tying Anchor loaded  not as easy.
.


* In working class knots : i think of a single Turn is a cheaper, quicker  get by (unless purposefully passing force to next position)
instead of taking time and materials to manufacture a more proper RT 'Real Turn' / Round Turn (or Crossing Turn) that chokes full circumference more properly, and reduces tension flows in the line (...unless purposefully maintaining tension in line to use at next position).
.
edit: main time a base RT doesn't work out when i want to dissipate rope tension is on a ball hitch; especially where both base and ball bottleneck in on rope to promote seizure even fusing, on really to small a host mount, super slick/ not reducing tensions, and now 2 Turns being compressed together.  This is pushing it, can fuse, harden, break, need to be cut off!  Bell Ringer or other simple Turn 2 only have 1 Turn in the works preferable(or ball) just redirect to other anchor tie off on  truck!  On sloped surfaces, normal knot assumptions don't apply!

.
WOW!: Even a slipped Turn can jam/seize/fuse on this puppy!
Want to keep single Turn, but space securing lock away from ball hitch with Bell Ringer #172 or other Bowline esque lock, rather than friction hitch to float works away from Nipping on ball_hitch i think
(pulling from ball_hitch can bend bumper if ball_hitch not set up to pull from frame directly/ properly,
rather than leveraging thru bumper to pull on frame)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 08:46:06 PM by KC »
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~