Author Topic: Siberian Hitch  (Read 18863 times)

knot4u

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2010, 07:00:55 PM »
-The Siberian is easier to tie, and I can easily tie the Siberian with thick gloves on.

But why not just tie a Bowline around the line, which is more stable
when slack?  
I can imagine that he'll reply that he can't untie the (running) bowline from a distance.

Uh, no, a Siberian is nothing like a bowline, as I explained above.

roo

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2010, 07:08:46 PM »
-The Siberian is easier to tie, and I can easily tie the Siberian with thick gloves on.

But why not just tie a Bowline around the line, which is more stable
when slack?  
I can imagine that he'll reply that he can't untie the (running) bowline from a distance.

Uh, no, a Siberian is nothing like a bowline, as I explained above.

Look up Running Bowline:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/bowline.html
(bottom of the page)
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knot4u

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2010, 07:23:39 PM »
-The Siberian is easier to tie, and I can easily tie the Siberian with thick gloves on.

But why not just tie a Bowline around the line, which is more stable
when slack?  
I can imagine that he'll reply that he can't untie the (running) bowline from a distance.

Uh, no, a Siberian is nothing like a bowline, as I explained above.

Look up Running Bowline:
http://notableknotindex.webs.com/bowline.html
(bottom of the page)

Well, discussions go more smoothly when we use the correct terminology.  "Bowline" does not equal "running bowline".  Dan, in fact, highlighted "Bowline".

Anyway, I also use the running bowline.  I cannot think of a situation where I would want to use the running bowline to replace the Siberian.  However, the running bowline may be convenient for those who don't want to learn and practice another knot.

Here are the Siberian hitch's advantages over the running bowline:
-Siberian is easier to untie, especially while wearing gloves
-Siberian doesn't completely release grip once standing end looses tension.  The Siberian must be worked loose (with not much effort) for the grip to release.

These may not be advantages for you, but they are for me in some applications.

Keep the questions coming.  I'll keep answering until I get bored.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 07:48:50 PM by knot4u »

roo

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2010, 07:41:29 PM »
Well, discussions go more smoothly when we use the correct terminology.  "Bowline" does not equal "running bowline".  Dan, in fact, highlighted "Bowline".

A bowline tied around the line is in fact a running bowline, which is what Dan said.  Lets move on.

Quote
-Siberian doesn't completely release grip once standing line loses tension.  The Siberian must be worked loose (with not much effort) for the grip to release.

Under some/many circumstances the Siberian/Modified Halter distorts into a running loop form, and can release grip when the standing line loses tension.

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roo

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2010, 08:56:35 PM »

These may not be advantages for you, but they are for me in some applications.

One thing I like about the Siberian Hitch/Modified Halter Hitch (aside from its security) is that the method(s) of tying prevents the line from the draw loop from getting wrapped around the standing part.   It helps keep things clean, especially when the draw loop line is very long.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 09:04:25 PM by roo »
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knot4u

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2010, 09:43:47 PM »
-The Siberian is easier to tie, and I can easily tie the Siberian with thick gloves on.

But why not just tie a Bowline around the line, which is more stable
when slack?  (These are, btw, "running" eye knots, not hitches, strictly put.)
As for a Buntline hitch, that doesn't work so well on relatively wide objects,
nor will is slide into position as easily as a running eye (which won't work
so well on relatively narrow objects ("rings").)

--dl*
====

Above, I responded to your post too quickly, sorry.

I just realized that if you make the loop sufficiently big, then you end up with a clove hitch around the object.  That combination (cow/running bowline) is one of my favorite hitches.  I'm officially undecided on whether or not I like this cow/running bowline better than a Siberian or a slipped buntline.  Each knot has its place.  A cow/honda is great too, as discussed here:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1860.0

It doesn't much matter to me.  I'll keep learning knots.  I keep all knots of interest in my cell phone, and I practice the knots that seem to be the most practical.  Depending on the situation, I can imagine beforehand which hitch I'd prefer to use.  However, if the chosen hitch ends up being unsatisfactory, then I'll use another hitch in my knot vocabulary.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:12:28 AM by knot4u »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2010, 04:46:12 AM »
The Siberian Hitch in the set of how-to-tie photos showed the knot
to be a running eye; both it and the Bowline can be made snug
around an object, but as noted, it's easier to do with the former.

Making the eye very long ... gets one the Cow not Clove (unless
you know some wizardry beyond my reckoning).

One could also but a bight around the standing line,
lay the end in a bight joining the first one,
and then cast Half-Hitches & a Double turn to form
a Rolling Hitch around these two bights; this surrounding
of the standing line can also be drawn snug (pulling the
appropriate bight farther through the Rolling Hitch).

--dl*
====

knot4u

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2010, 05:11:13 AM »
I meant cow.

One could also but a bight around the standing line,
lay the end in a bight joining the first one,
and then cast Half-Hitches & a Double turn to form
a Rolling Hitch around these two bights; this surrounding
of the standing line can also be drawn snug (pulling the
appropriate bight farther through the Rolling Hitch).

--dl*
====

I pic will be necessary for me to understand that.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 07:07:52 AM by knot4u »

Transminator

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2010, 09:06:44 AM »
I don't usually do youtube, but I think the hitch referred to in this old thread can now be found on the web in images.

One person learns better from images, others from watching a video. It is just another option of learning, that is why I posted it.

-The Siberian is easier to tie, and I can easily tie the Siberian with thick gloves on.

I agree.

But why not just tie a Bowline around the line, which is more stable
when slack? 
 

It is an option, but the bowline does not grip the line as the the clove hitch does in the buntline
or the slip knot in the siberian.
When the line is slack, the hole thing might just slide down the pole to which it was attached.
If I tighten the bunline hitch or the siberian, it has enough grip on the object to stay in position.

For my part: Since I learned the Siberian and tested it, it has become part of my repertoire (along with the slipped buntline)
because it is easily tied using the "gimmicked" or rather "quick-tie" method and holds satisfactorily. I have yet to see
it fail (though I have not tested it extensively to come to a final conclusion).
I agree with knot4u's analysis, who, IMHO, pointed out the weaknesses and strength of both quite accurately.

I would suggest learning various ways of tying the Halter Hitch and then the Modified Halter Hitch to round out your abilities. 

That is a good general advice for a serious knot tier. Learn all the ways a knot can be tied
(on the bight, with loose end, one handed, behind your back, blindfolded etc.)
so that you are prepared for all circumstances.

knot4u

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2010, 05:35:35 PM »
I posted a question about the halter hitch and "modified halter hitch" in a new thread:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1868.new#new
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:46:44 PM by knot4u »

roo

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Re: Siberian Hitch
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2010, 06:50:02 AM »
I posted a question about the halter hitch and "modified halter hitch" in a new thread:

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1868.new#new
In that thread, I posted this note that may be of interest to those who are reading about the Siberian Hitch:

"The  buntline's form (slipped or non-slipped) is more stable than the Halter Hitch/Siberian Family..."

Doing some further tests, this stability issue comes up in a specific test.  With small nylon rope and a bat as an anchor, both the Halter Hitch and the related Siberian Hitch would capsize when exposed to cyclical high strain (and relaxation).  The resultant knot form prevented the draw loop from functioning, and therefore slowed release as I had to loosen the now tightened capsized structure.


http://notableknotindex.webs.com/haltersiberian.html
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 07:42:17 PM by roo »
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