Author Topic: ABoK #1016  (Read 2154 times)

DerekSmith

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ABoK #1016
« on: January 04, 2016, 07:00:14 PM »
ABoK #1016

Mobius

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 07:42:47 AM »
Hi Derek,

I may have missed some posts relevant to the original here,  however, at the risk of discussing this knot at a tangent to intended, here is how I considered it.

The knot in final form might be useful as a 'clip on' in climbing since it is tiable in the bight. The tail would then feed (at approx.right angles) to any 'tie in the end' eye knot a climber felt happy with. The  #1016 would need to show itself non-jamming/non-slipping in both its depicted form and in 'end to end' form to be truly useful for a climber.

FWIW, I have been trialling similar style knots (e.g. TIB eye knots that are similar to a Double Dragon, Perfection Loop or Farmer's Loop in some cases).

Cheers,

mobius

Edit: I have tied the #1016 knot in 11mm kernmantle and studied it. It looks promising, however knots that really behave well need more than someone's 'thinking' . I will try it on my rig when I return from holiday (if there is interest).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 08:27:39 AM by mobius »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 05:25:48 PM »
I write here just to point out that IMO --or at least
to some conjecture-- Ashley mis-presents this knot,
and it should be a twin-eye knot as presented as his
#1074 (although #1882 echoes the #1016 form).
At least, to the point about "should have double bearing"
for use on a hook, this satisfies that rationale; otherwise,
all I can muse re the Luce & Ward recommentation,
"for a heavy pull...", is the extra 2 diameters in the
central nipping loop --but one must question that THIS
aspect would be recognized as having some merit?!
(and not that of double bearing).

All of which is not to deny that #1016 is a valid knot
on its own sake, but one must question the alleged
purpose/history.


--dl*
====

DerekSmith

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 07:58:05 PM »
BWL by Mark Gommers

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 05:05:12 PM »
We are also talking 3 different chapters of thought and 3 different duty ranges.
Also possible angle of pulls in #1074; but also offering double bearing.
.
The pic of the standard Bowline now posted on this topic shows a HH choke ring/cuckold for securing w/2 Nips on collar around S.Part.
.
The load in the eye of Bowline, pulls 50% to the cuckold/choke ring hold as lock ;
and
50% to the collar as release leg that get's nipped 2x by other 50% cuckhold/choker(above).
.
This eye support form as a force flow thru the line is more seen in #1074.
.
#1016 'echoed' in #1082 as separate form; both pulls of the single loaded eye feed likewise 50/50 but both to the S.Part previous to cuckhold/choker(normal Bowline 1 leg goes to cuchold/choker, other leg of eye support pulls from above same).

.
So, though tied and called a Bowline, as far as eye support is more of OH w/bight fed thru that would be better ungraded to fig.8 family, dbl.bearing.bowline or at least RT on hook for some strength gain /wear evening (IMO).
Rope-n-Saw Life
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

agent_smith

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 04:37:31 AM »
Looks like Derek is no longer the 'dunny man'...instead, he is the 'knot botherer'.

#1016 Bowline is a collapsed version of #1074 Bowline with a bight (which is also in contrast to #1080 Bowline on a bight) - where in #1016 the 'ongoing eye leg' is collapsed.

I had considered contrasting these 3 eye knots in my Bowlines paper (#1016 / #1074 / #1080).

Ashley's depiction of #1016 Being similar to a transformation exercise carried out by Xarax on #1080 - where one of the eye's is collapsed.

I too consider Dan Lehman's words...with regards to the alleged purpose/benefits of #1016 in its purported use.

Mark G
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:38:26 AM by agent_smith »