Author Topic: What is the name of this knot?  (Read 2081 times)

AlohaArborist

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What is the name of this knot?
« on: November 23, 2015, 01:52:22 AM »
Hi everyone,
    I have been trying to find the name of this knot for a while now but I can't find it.  I doubt that it is a new discovery given its simplicity, reliability and ease of untying. I would like to know the name though so that I can learn more about its history. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

alpineer

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Re: What is the name of this knot?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 07:50:34 AM »
Ashley refers to it as the "Whatnot" #1406 in ABoK, not to be confused with the much less secure #1407 variant.   
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 08:00:53 AM by alpineer »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: What is the name of this knot?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 08:14:07 PM »
I like to think of it as "the half-hitch bend", and I've
seen it named "grass bend" (IIRC), and seen as
an apt end-2-end knot for flat materials.

Be chary in referring to ...
Quote
its simplicity, reliability, and ease of untying.
as the tying can be tricky --things have to go just so--,
and it's vulnerable to coming out of that "just so" orientation
and not holding; I'm not so sure that easy of untying is an
assured condition, either, after high loading, but maybe it's
a knot that enables "forcible loosening" --i.e., by pulling the
tails apart (in this knot's case), one an force some feed of
S.Part into the knot and ... loosening, thus.

FYI, one can similarly have the tails going in opposite
directions (so, S.Parts taking opposed "handedness"),
but that takes even greater care in tying and is likely
less stable.


--dl*
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 06:42:54 AM by Dan_Lehman »

Twine

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Re: What is the name of this knot?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 10:57:41 PM »
The knot, whatever it's called (I usually think of it as "the simplest harness bend" when I think I need a name for it), is very neat and small, I really like it, but I have discovered that it slips ever so slightly and slowly under intermittent loading. I have had a carabiner tied to a kind of "door trapeze" which I use for taking exercise and also to try out knots on, and the carabiner was attached to the steel bar with a folded loop. The loop was made of thin strong material, but since it was so short (I don't like to throw away string as long as it's good, even if it is short), I thought hard about what knot would be the smallest and would use the least amount of material, and I decided on this one. Only last week, after a few months of use, I discovered that the tails were almost pulled all the way into the knot, so it isn't what I'd call a very secure knot.

I have now replaced the knot with a fisherman's bend (Ashley #1414). Slightly larger, but tried and tested by anglers for centuries, so I feel reasonably safe about the loop holding up now.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo da Vinci

KC

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Re: What is the name of this knot?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 12:45:33 PM »
Theory: Knot is a very good example of perfect alignment etc. to hold lacing.
.
Can even be a magician's trick(unseen flip to alternate form);
for if everything else is the same,
and upper Bitter End moves below lower Bitter End
>>pull both ends and walks out when pulled like it has gear wheels on it as a 'Grief Knot' (Granny/Thief).
>>So i think of this as someplace between Square/Reef Knot family and Sheet Bend family
(i like Square better, to show should be aligned/ sit square like Square/Reef does, Thief/Granny bases deform from 'square') 
.
Properly aligned parts, hold wonderfully and simplistically,
as example of proper mechanically aligned parts in flexible devices/as any other.

edit
*************************************************************
To me, Square/Reef provides no direct loading force on any Nip to Bitter Ends
>>only receives indirect Nip, not direct Nip from S_Part before frictions
>>And then not Nipped to hardest surface either
Lock of Sheet Bend's hitch engages mainline/S_Part forces to Nip on hitch side
>>And Nip bight's Bitter End also with primary/mainline/S_part force...
>>But only if that end bends to same side as hitch, for hardest surface w/lock
.

.
BUT, a flip of the wrist, and we have Whatknot class of 2 hitch structures
>> Nipping with mainline/primary/S_Part forces against own hardest surfaces on the Bitter Ends!
>>Previously Bitter Ends prevented each other form seating/combed each other free
Whatknot class, Bitter Ends don't interfere with each other
>> so allow each other to seat proper, not comb each other out/free
.
Square/Reef needs mounted on something convex to provide hardest Nipping surface
>> on primary/mainline/S_Part lines to hold.
Whatknot can be free standing / BEND, as provides own hard Nip force and surface on the primary/mainline/S_Part 'run'
.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2016, 01:23:28 PM by KC »
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