Author Topic: 3 TIB Loops  (Read 3478 times)

Mobius

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3 TIB Loops
« on: September 23, 2015, 06:15:31 AM »
Here are three similar looking loops that also function in a similar way. These loops are all very easy to tie in-the-end and also have very easy TIB (tiable in the bight) methods of tying. The latter point is important because we sometimes get presented TIB loops that are not easy to tie that way. You do not need 3 hands and have to remember a series of esoteric twists to tie any of the shown loops in a TIB way, if you want to. TIB is TIB and may or may not be particularly practical for a given loop application, but I invariable present knots that have this quality FWIW.

More importantly: The three knots are non-jamming and have been trialled to 50% MBS. I have also studied the three knots in slightly different forms to see how the knot performs in climbing rope at 500kg. Many knots distort quite badly under load even though you might not go as far as saying they have collapsed. These three knots seem to hold their form very well.

The simplest loop is the bottom of the three: It's turNip, the collar and the mid-nub binding loop all do something load wise and snug as the knot tightens with load. The mid binding loop is like the 'link' some knots have, except that it is not formed after the collar (like Alpineer's Bowline) and seems to tighten better while still providing structure to the knot. One could argue that what I am calling a mid-nub binding loop is really just part of a dual turNip. Maybe, however I just don't think that where the binding loop naturally sits functions in quite the way dual turNip's usually seem to work. The knots are self dressing, you do not have to worry too much about where the loops sit when you tie the knots, they just seem to want to sit in the right places.

I show the simplest knot at 500kg load. I will show exploded views of the knots (to help tying) if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

mobius
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 02:17:51 PM by mobius »

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 08:56:38 AM »
Here are some more shots of the loops. Each loop has what I think of as a mid-nub binding loop. The largest loop is formed from a cross legs Girth Hitch (a pretzel), the others are more like a reversed Munter Bowline in form.

Cheers,

mobius

alanleeknots

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 10:02:04 AM »
Hi Mobius, 
               Yes I am interest, can you please tie some loose knot, so that I can learn how to tie your new knots.

               謝謝   alan lee.

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 12:12:20 PM »
I somehow forget to mention: All three loops are PET (post eye tiable).

Follows are 3 exploded views, not my best photography, the flecked rope I used this time is not as nice as the plain blue I usually use.

I also forgot to mention, they may not be new, I just think they are. There are a lot of loops out there (on this site alone), so even if they are not new I believe they are good, pending some peer feedback from the forum.

I included a more side on view of the asterix loop. I quite like how it exemplifies the look of a loop under a reasonable load, look at how thin the standing part looks and how little deflection the collar provides with this particular knot.

Cheers,

mobius


Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2015, 04:47:36 AM »
I am not very happy about my last exploded views, this one may be better, others can wait.

This depicted loop looks a lot like Dan's Locked Bowline (so I have just noticed) even down to way the tail crosses itself. For me the tail crossing provided a nice place for what I am calling the mid-nub binding loop to sit naturally. The fact that an overhand is formed when re-tucking the tail ('yobo' style) does not perturb me. The knot snugs well (and maybe the overhand actually helps) and does not jam, regardless of the overhand.

Cheers,

mobius
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 04:11:02 AM by mobius »

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2015, 08:55:51 AM »
Here are hopefully better exploded views of what I playfully called the Obelix Loop.

The Standing Part (Spart) has an interesting 'hummock' before becoming a turNip. I don't see this as a problem, especially when loops like http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5475.msg37060#msg37060 seem to work well without a turNip at all.

Cheers,

mobius
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 04:10:08 AM by mobius »

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 06:16:19 AM »
Here are redone images of the last getafix loop, very similar too, though slightly larger than the obelix one.

My favourite of these three loops is the first (asterix loop). It is material efficient, easy to tie in the end and easy to tie TIB if you want it that way. Holds form very well under load and does not jam. The other loops work that way too, they are just larger.

The TIB method(s) can be shown best in another presentation, if required.


Cheers,

mobius
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 08:32:10 AM by mobius »

alanleeknots

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2015, 08:56:01 PM »
Hi Mobius, Check this out, here is the base knot for you getafix loop.
                Reply #114  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.105

               謝謝  alan lee

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 07:40:22 AM »
Hi Mobius, Check this out, here is the base knot for you getafix loop.
                Reply #114  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5383.105

               謝謝  alan lee

Ok😊not really a new idea. Thanks for the feedback.

For what it is worth, l studied the way the girth legs crossed and also how the getafix version I showed behaves under load. I like the way I did it still. Also, I have an easy tib method of tying my version, which may be relevant to some. The knot size is its biggest drawback. There seems to be an interesting  playoff amongst loops: Too small, nobody takes it seriously (in general,  not particular to here), too big,  it's immediately too hard to tie and we want something easier/smaller.

Appreciate some more feedback if anyone wishes to share

Cheers,

mobius

alanleeknots

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 09:17:13 AM »
Hi All,
         Mobius, You effort count, you have easy TIB method of tying your version, please share it with us, this is why we come to this forum
         for, we tie, we learn, we create and we share.
           謝謝  alan lee
         

Mobius

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Re: 3 TIB Loops
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 12:45:11 PM »
Hi All,
         Mobius, You effort count, you have easy TIB method of tying your version, please share it with us, this is why we come to this forum
         for, we tie, we learn, we create and we share.
           謝謝  alan lee
         
I will get back doing a tying TIB presentation for these three knots eventually  :D

One of the knots I show here turned into my preferred and 'favourite' Bowline (for now 8) ) . I use it on my rig often, however what the particular application is apart from that is...?

FWIW, TIB for a Bowline only matters if you have an end eye knot application that is really easy to tie in a TIB fashion. So easy, you might prefer tying it that way instead of in an end of line method. Most of the touted TIB bowlines are a waste of time in my opinion, nobody can tie them in a TIB fashion that is easier than an end of line method, so why bother?

Typically a TIB bowline does not get used as an in-line eye knot, it doesn't do the job properly, largely because the knot was never designed to be used in-line as an end-2-end knot application in the first place.

The three TIB bowlines I show here are extremely easy to tie TIB. If they were not easy there would be no point in them being TIB.

I will further clarify this view if necessary,

Cheers,

Ian.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:01:29 AM by mobius »