The Offset version of #1414 I think has been presented before - in knotting matters perhaps?
While Ashley #s might be credited with precision,
they are so by virtue of making a reference which
can be tedious or impossible to the reader; ergo,
please accompany your precision with helpful names
--esp. here, the commonly known
"(single) fisherman's knot".
Can someone please confirm details (eg date presented and by whom).
Josh GUDELIUS presented what he (not-so-helpfully) named
the
"triple fisherman's knot" (and which I see has now be re-named
something cumbersome by more puzzling than misleading), in which
the
offset fisherman's knot is given an
overhand stopper on the
tail of the *inner*/first-nipping
overhand component of the base knot.
Cf.
www.gudelius.de/spst.htmand I think further searching by his name (and maybe by the name(s)
of the knot) will find a thread here, or ... (somewhere, I recall).
--with a "usual suspect" making comments.
I have included a photo of #1410 for comparison.
Offset version of #1414 has a smaller footprint than #1410.
Wow, one has to scrutinize the images to see a difference.
I beg to question the notion of ANY "smaller footprint",
and this especially challenges the significance of what
might be shown! In any case, I'd not present either of
these knots as recommended : the infamous
"EDK"(i.e., the
offset water knot / #1410) is usually presented
with the admonition to trust it but with "long tails";
and as you can see from Josh's presentation, he does
ad (essentially --one can divide the trio of
overhandsinto 2+1 or 1+2 (knot + a stopper, or "guard" + knot).
I've presented thoughts about offset abseil-rope joints in
various places. Please NB: what you show for these knots
--for both, I think-- ARE BUT ONE PARTICULAR OUT OF MANY
ORIENTATIONS FOR THEM. Cf. this presentation of extreme
differences --i.e., where on the left the orange cord makes
a U-turn/loop up into the nub; whereas on the right side
it makes a sort of upwards *arc* and it's the Goldline rope
that makes the loop. SAME KNOT, just differently set in
hand and then tightened (and easily enough RE-set to the
other, or to a between-extremes, orientation.
[edit to add (egadz!) the aforementioned presentation] www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqAodEJTHIS JUST IS IGNORED THROUGHOUT DISCUSSION OF THIS
COMMON KNOT --nobody is l00king intelligently at this !!!
(Though common, veteran climber-poster "RGold" has noted
the recommendation to make the smaller (orange, above) rope
have the "inner"/first nipping, the larger to thus be put into
stopper-position abutting this smaller cord. (It would be
easier for large rope to roll around small cord than vice versa,
is the point!)
You and I have had our differences over your favored
offset
double water knot (strangle?) knot, i.p. vs. my favored putting
in a full wrap/round-turn for the "EDK"/"OWK" and getting
what I name
"offset 9-oh" (giving the foundation component
--what does initial nipping/choking of S.Parts-- prominence in
the name (here, "9").
I suppose it's worth some mental effort to see if one can
learn pros/cons of having the two components (in cases
where there are such --such above) arranged to be
more together (water knot) or separate (fisherman's knot) !?
(It's certainly easier to take the two tails and in one fell
swoop make an
overhand ; it is less simple to do this
for the
offset 9-Oh --one needs to put in the extra
turn for the 9. But more important is the result.
(The EDK backed by an EDK is another simple & sure way
--to not must have "long tails' but to DO SOMETHING with'
those tails : tie the 2nd, stopper-EDK!)
a thought : the stopper knot --where used-- might enable
the base knot to be untied more easily, arresting the
deformation of the base knot!?
REPEAT AFTER ME ::
THIS JUST IS IGNORED THROUGHOUT DISCUSSION OF THIS
COMMON KNOT --nobody is l00king intelligently at this !!!
When you tie some offset knot,
as it is lightly tensioned (tie it off somehow),
grasp the nub and just turn it like doorknob,
this way and the other,
see how orientation changes. What are the effects?!
(Ideally, we find a knot in which any orientation is fine,
as one doesn't want to prescribe something that comes
with a list of details to tend to! And especially ARJ knots
can be called upon to be tied by tired, fatigued persons
in "exposed" conditions trying to beat darkness of,
missing that, work in darkness.)
--dl*
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