Author Topic: Yoke hitch  (Read 10895 times)

xarax

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2015, 02:39:17 PM »
   A rare early morning without ( much ) pain, which I would nt left unexploited, of course ! :)
   Trying to get rid of the annoying slipped overhand knot ( I do not like overhand knots - they are bad, ugly knots, and the slipped overhand knots are not much better or prettier... ), I thought that I could take advantage of the parallel segment of the "first"/"left" wrap which runs near the "left" leg of the bight on which we have to attach our Tail End : a simple 360 degrees loop formed on this segment, could offer an anchor point, which, combined with the 180 degrees half-loop at the tip of the bight, could possibly be utilized to attach the Tail End and finish the knot.
   The most neat and secure implementation of this idea I had found  is shown in the attached picture : a "bowline finish", where the loop on the first wrap has been utilized as nipping loop of the bowline. Now, one may think, as I did while I was tying this knot and before I pre-tensioned it, that this solution would offer a not-permanent, un-tiable finish - because bowlines are easily un-tiable... Well, wrong thought :) : this bowline is not un-tiable, because neither its second leg of the bight can be unburied from its place under the tensioned wrap, and pulled out of the nipping loop, nor the nipping loop itself can be loosened.... And we have also to kiss good bye to the TIB-ness of the knot. Nevertheless, I though that it is an interesting variation / solution of the requirement for this not-very-clever slipped overhand knot finish.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 02:43:22 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2015, 10:19:16 AM »
   This knot resembles a temple, where one side/part of it is made from marble ( the opposed bights at the crossing point of the "first"/"left" wrap, and the Standing End which passes through them : a perfect solution ), and the other is made from wood ( the slipped overhand knot attached on the tip of the bight of the "second"/"right" wrap : a so-so solution ). What can we do ? There are some half-pretty, or even some half-ugly knots that work - to say nothing from some totally ugly- and also dumb - knots, that work, too ! ( the Timber hitch...).
   So. I have to live with this, I guess. This hitch is incredibly tight, to be abandoned on reasons of looks.
   Trying to improve the situation, I tied the same Yoke hitch, but this time I did not pass the slipped Tail End of the overhand knot through the tip of the bight of the wrap - i.e., I did not tie an ABoK#1821-like solution, which is the most secure and natural solution in this case. I thought that one can possibly utilize the "classic" property of the snag hitches, to immobilize ( totally or partially ) the Tail End by passing it underneath a tensioned riding turn. The result is shown at the attached pictures.
   It looks a somewhat prettier / less bulky solution. The interesting thing is that it seems to hold very well, although the Tail End is not nipped by the bight of the wrap, as in the solutions presented at the first post of this thread. To pre-tension the hitch, I had started pulling the Standing End, and from then on I had not intervened at the slipped overhand knot itself at all (*)- however, although during the pre-tensioning it became somewhat elongated, and "opened" up, it continued to grip the slipped Tail End very efficiently, because it squeezed it in between its own segments and the surface of the pole. And in this hitch, this squeeze, just as the tension of the wraps, is h u g e !
   Provided that, in the initial set up of the hitch, the slipped Tail of the overhand knot is left long enough ( say. twice as long as it is in the pictures ), I believe the hitch will "lock" without any compromise of its security. However, one should try it well beyond the pre-tension which I was able to apply on the Standing End  ( about 250 kg ) to confirm this.   

(*) If, at some point during the pulling of the Standing End, one stops for a moment and takes the slack of the slipped overhand knot off, and "closes" it as much as he can, and then starts again the pulling, at the end the overhand knot will be much more compact, and it will not even give the impression it could possibly let its slipped Tail slip through. In the hitch shown at the attached pictures I had not offered any such "help" in its compactness/integrity during the pre-tensioning phase.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 10:29:48 AM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2015, 12:24:10 PM »
   The Blackwall hitch is a GREAT knot. ( It occupies one of the 12 places in my personal Pantheon of "old" knots, and I believe it will stay there, for ever). It may be considered as the pinnacle of what people call, without giving much thought on this, "half hitches" - a class of knots which includes quite different structures ( many of which are nothing but disguised nipping loops/turns ).
   Of course, in this great era of great knot parroting ( and not-great knot parroting - the only thing that is always great is the parroting itself :) ), where most "knot users" WATCH pictures of knots, but they do not actually tie and try them, and they do not even imagine they could tie them differently, or modify them, this knot is almost unknown. The internet popular super-markets, which advertise / promote / sell knots, present it as a hitch tied on a hook, so most people, who have never used or even got close to a big hook ( like those used in construction work, for example ), believe that this is not a knot they will ever "use". I had not seen any of those knot-sellers to mention that the part of the hook utilized by the hitch is no different from the part of a same-size ring, so the Blackwall hitch can be tied on/within a ring as well. And, of course, nobody mentions that it can also be tied within the tip of a tensioned bight - perhaps they believe that this could frighten the naive customers ! :)  However, the Blackwall hitch within-a-bight, as I use to call it, is nothing but the incarnation of the "original" Blackwall hitch tied within the rope of the bight is less slippery than the "corresponding" hook or a ring, it may work even better.
   Therefore, it is no surprize that the very first knot that crossed my mind when I was trying to figure out how to attach the Tail End of the Yoke hitch to the bight of its "second" wrap, was the Blackwall hitch within-a-bight. Less convoluted, less prone to jamming, consuming less material, requiring less tucks than the overhand knot-based solutions ( ABoK#1821), in short, a clever minimal knot, which should always be the first thing we try when we have to attach an end to the tip of a tensioned bight.
   One can understand my surprize when, after the first, after the second, after the 12th try, the Blackwall hitch within-a-bight itself remained firmly attached where I had placed it - but the Yoke hitch as a whole, based on it, failed to work, even once ! By pulling the Standing End against the pole, all that one does is to force the transport of its entry point from the "rear" to the "front" side of the pole, without tensioning the wraps themselves at all. The two wraps and the pole rotate relatively to each other, but the tension one would had wished to be generated by this motion remains notoriously absent : the wraps do not start to shrink when they should had to, so they do not stop sliding on the surface of the pole, so they do not stop rotating, so their crossing points ( the two parts of the tackle ) do not stop approaching each other, until they finally close the gap, "kiss" each other, and the whole "tensioning" phase terminates - without any tension. This is exactly what one would had anticipated a "Tackled hitch" should behave, if he had only "watched" Tackled hitches, and had not actually tied properly and tried carefully a sufficient number of them, a sufficient number of times. In the attached picture, one can see the initial stage of the Yoke hitch with a Blackwall hitch within-a-bight finish : Not very different from the much less clever solution of the slipped overhand knot or the ABoK#1821 shown in previous posts - yet it seems that the less clever solutions work, and this more clever solution does not ! :)
   Why is this so ? Why this clever solution does not contribute ( someway, I do not know how ) in the early shrinking and the subsequent tightening of the wraps of the hitch during its transformation imposed by the pull of its Tail End against the pole, while the dumb solution based on the overhand knot does ( also somehow, I also do not know how ) ? ? ?  I simply do not know...
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 12:33:47 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2015, 01:02:17 PM »
   Another simple finish for the Yoke hitch, which does not involve an overhand knot. If we pass the Tail under as many tensioned segments (= riding turns ) of the two wraps as it meets in its way, when it completes a 360 degrees O-turn, it is secured even more than we would had wished ! :)  When you just look at those pictures, you will wonder if this finish ( where the Tail End is not interweaved to itself, like it happens in the ABoK#1821-like solutions ), would be adequate, under the extremely strong tensile forces it has to withstand - but, actually, if you tie and pretension the hitch, you will realize that there is only one way to pull this secured Tail out : to cut its last segment off. Each time I tie and pre-tension it ( as hard as I can, of course ), the rope becomes 15cm shorter... :)
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xarax

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2015, 04:07:27 PM »
   That is because you had not pulled the end with both your hands AND feet, like a rower or weight lifter :) -  or you had not hanged the pole by the Standing End in its middle, and then stepped on it with your one foot at the one side of the hitch and the other at the other, like I do... If you do this, the best, more clever, less harming the spinal cord untying technique I was able to figure out, in the one involving the instrument shown in the attached picture.
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Ruby

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2015, 03:53:04 AM »
   Another simple finish for the Yoke hitch, which does not involve an overhand knot. If we pass the Tail under as many tensioned segments (= riding turns ) of the two wraps as it meets in its way, when it completes a 360 degrees O-turn.......

this version is TIB , quick and easy, i like it

knotsaver

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Slipped and Doubly slipped Yoke hitch
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2015, 06:04:31 PM »
The last variation (Reply #19) of the Yoke hitch can be improved if we pull the second end so that its segment goes over itself, not side to side (look at the multi-picture improvedYoke.jpg).
If we want to release it, we can push the segment towards the surface of the pole and so, unlocking the lock, we are able to loosen the wrap, but if we want to release it more easily we can tie a slipped variation of the Yoke hitch (look at the multi-picture SlippedYokeHitch.jpg). From the first diagram of the picture we can draw a simple TIB method.
BUT if we want to release it more more easily we can tie a doubly slipped variation of the Yoke hitch. In this variation we have to pay attention to the position of the tail end of the bight (look at the multi-picture Doubly slipped Yoke hitch.jpg). There is a simple TIB method for this variation too.
bye
s.
(p.s. Thanks to Xarax for his contribution.)

knotsaver

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2015, 12:14:00 PM »
Here's an application of the Yoke hitch
:)
ciao,
s.

knotsaver

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2015, 12:30:13 PM »
Here come the TIB methods for the slipped and the "doubly slipped" Yoke hitch.
bye,
s.
p.s. Find the wraps in the second diagram! :)

alpineer

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2015, 05:55:35 PM »
Here's an application of the Yoke hitch   
:)
ciao,
s.   

WHAT?!!! How is this an application? Please explain what is the purpose? I would guess that less complex (read easier to build) hitches would preclude it's use in any application. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 06:11:03 PM by alpineer »

knotsaver

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2015, 06:26:14 PM »
WHAT?!!! How is this an application? Please explain what is the purpose? I would guess that less complex (read easier to build) hitches would preclude it's use in any application.

I mean an example of use...
The purpose is explained by the name of the picture: Yoke-sax-ligature.jpg
A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece, sometimes I used two constrictor knots, but I think the Yoke hitch performs the task better.
Ciao,
s.

alpineer

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2015, 08:23:15 PM »
Have you tried a multi-wrap Strangle Hitch? It looks a sight better, too.

knotsaver

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2015, 08:04:17 AM »
Have you tried a multi-wrap Strangle Hitch? It looks a sight better, too.

WHAT?!!!
:)
are you joking?
I think we can't compare these two hitches (in general and)  in this sax-ligature specific application (the reed can move and we have to keep it in a specific position).
With a strangle (as with a constrictor) in order to tighten the hitch (the ligature) with both hands you lose control of the reed. With the Yoke you can use one hand to control, contemporaneously, the reed and the (slipped) end of the hitch and with the other hand you can tighten the hitch itself.
The perpendicular pull (with respect to the mouthpiece/pole) is an important factor too!
I was thinking about the TackleClamp gripping hitch for a multi-wrap hitch, but there are a lot of them.
Maybe we have to handle with care the whole mechanism of the Yoke hitch, but I think it's a very good knot, please, try the TIB slipped version!
ciao,
s.

alpineer

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2015, 06:07:00 PM »

A ligature clamps the reed to the mouthpiece,

Ahh, I see - after Googling - and understand now that the reed is an external piece which is fixed to the mouthpiece just prior to playing.


alpineer

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Re: Yoke hitch
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2015, 07:17:10 PM »

WHAT?!!!
:)
are you joking?
 

Noope :)
Is the German String Ligature not to your liking?   
Question... are you able to remove the reed by sliding the intact ligature off the end of the mouthpiece? A Common Whipping might work, allowing you to tighten the ligature with one hand, one end at a time.