Author Topic: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.  (Read 8932 times)

xarax

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"Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« on: August 14, 2015, 04:29:16 PM »
   ( I will post some pictures first, because this Windows 10 / Edge .... and I do not want to lose them, again !
   
   In short, I had arrived at those hitches, by trying to :
   1. improve the angles of the pulling and pulled segments of rope, so the mechanical advantage of the Cow-hitch / Zigzag hitch arrangement of interlinked bights is implemented more efficiently.
   2. decrease the area of contact / friction between the most tensioned segments and the surface of the poll during the ( alternate ) puling of the ends. This way the wraps can be pre-tensioned more easily, therefore more tightly.

   Those hitches are the tightest two-wrap hitches I had ever tied - and one way to know it ( other that the high pitch of the sound the hollow pole makes during tensioning ) is to count the amount of anti-inflammatory pills and pain killers I have to take for my back pain...

   More, shortly...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 04:33:30 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 04:30:37 PM »
2.
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 04:31:42 PM »
   The procedure / tying method is straightforward, and easy : You can tie any of the dozens hitches which can be " tackled " this way, and be transformed into VERY tight hitches, by either of two ways :
   1. Start from a double loop with communicating bights, as shown in the last picture.
   2. Start from any end-of-line loop, of a length, say, the 3/4 ths of the circumference of the pole, roll it around the pole, reeve its ends through the tip of its bight and then take them back, at the nub, and reeve them through it again, to secure them.
   The difficult thing is to find the most simple possible loops, so their nubs would not become very bulky when they will be fed by the two ends which will penetrate them for the second time, but also avoid the too simple loops, so their nubs would not "walk" towards the tips of their eyes. The optimum loop must be slim, but also must be able to remain fixed, and not become elongated and, at the end, cover the whole circumference of the pole.
   ( Of course, the first loop I had tried was the Butterfly loop - but when it was penetrated by its ends, it seemed too "fat" to me... I believe we can find simpler / slimmer solutions )
   The careful reader would notice that the "red" hitch is TIB - this is one more condition I am struggling with right now - besides my back pain.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 05:14:59 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 07:51:29 PM »
   Ceteris paribus, how tight a hitch is, is revealed by how much it can withstand, or how less it slips, under, a lengthwise pull - because that depends on how oblique the wraps become, so on how less tight, and how efficiently the secure "locks" of the ends do not allow material be fed from the ends into the wraps.
   I have seen that the resistance of the humble Simplest tackled hitch, by being "tackled", becomes remarkable !
   See the attached pictures, where this most elementary hitch shows its abilities. We should not underestimate the potential, into a compound knot or a rope-mechanism, of a properly placed overhand knot.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 07:53:28 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 11:20:58 PM »
   Eureka ! :)
   ( It was under my nose, but it had a few twists of its own which it seems I had not digested till now. )
   Possibly one of the simplest Tackled hitches, easy to tie and untie, ROCK SOLID, and, last but not least, TIB !
   It is based on nothing else than the " Double Butterfly loop " ( I do not know if this thing exists, and I had no time to look at Ashley, but it is a double TIB loop with the same nub as the Butterfly loop and bend, so I believe it does, and I call it like this. )
   See the attached picture, of the loose knot. Tomorrow, first thing in the morning, IF f I have not died from my back pains, I will take and post pictures of the beauty-and-the-beast at the same time I hold in my hands. 

P.S. Actually, what people call "Double Butterfly loop" does not have communicating bights / eyes. Nevertheless, the nub of this Tackled hitch is identical to the nub of Butterfly bend or loop, except that the penetrating lines are doubled - so I will keep calling it " Butterfly Tackled hitch ".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 11:04:34 AM by xarax »
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xarax

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The Butterfly Tackled hitch - a beasty beauty (1)
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 11:03:39 AM »
   Some first pictures of the Butterfly Tackled hitch - the most tight hitch I know, yet TIB, easy to tie and untie, and acceptably complex, for what it is able to accomplish.
 ( I have a gut feeling that I will not find any tighter TIB hitch than that, ever...and since I have already abandoned any further search of bends and double loops ( too easy to tie something "new", that works OK ), and loops ( the Ampersand bowline and the Plait loop are OK ), I wonder what am I going to do from now on - exercises on knotting litter-ature, perhaps ? :)

  A hint to tie it : Anticipate the required length of the loop(s), so you will not run the danger to make the two parts "kiss" each other prematurely,  and tension the nub in a first stage, before you start pulling the ends : this way it will not "walk" ( it will, a little bit, but not much : after a while, it will become stationary, because each of the two interlinked loops will not allow the other to move further ).
  A reminder : in all symmetric two-wrap tight hitches ( as my previous favorite, the Bull Clove hitch ), the final tensioning should better be done alternately : by pulling the one end after the other, and continuing this procedure a few times, until the hitch becomes rock solid. As they are designed to be tensioned by pulling the ends against the pole ( perpendicularly to the surface of the hitched object ), one efficient way to do this is ( provided the height where the object is located permits it ) to use one s hands AND feet, as rowers do... :)  Only beware of your back - because I know one stupid fellow who was not.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 11:13:54 AM by xarax »
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Ruby

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 01:02:06 PM »
seems complicated. double trucker's hitch MA?

xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2015, 02:04:36 PM »
  On the contrary, it seems a (very) simplified trucker s hitch to me... :)
  One trucker s hitch has two fixed loops, so two trucker s hitches, side-by-side, would have four ! Here, you have ONE.
  Besides, the whole knot/arrangement is TIB. I doubt that you can tie two parallel trucker s hitches, and manage to make the whole arrangement TIB - even if you use, as loops, slipped overhand knots.
   You should "see" the Butterfly nub of the knot, without paying attention to where the "limbs" go and how they are linked to each other. If you isolate the "core" of the 8 "arms" of this octopus :) ( perhaps I should had named it "octopus hitch " ! :) ), you can understand how it works. As I said in a previous post, it is nothing but a fixed loop where the ends are reeved through its eye and then back again through its nub. You can transform almost any fixed loop to its "tackled" version, and then use it as a hitch. Most of them have a tight enough nub, which is able to nip the two penetrating returning ends quite securely - mind you that the tension in each of them is divided by half. Also, the fact that the ends, when they turn around the tip of the loop before they re-enter into the nub, are in contact to the surface of the pole, enhances this security even more. Sometimes I had loosened them from the nub, but the hitch was remaining tensioned, because they were so much squeezed under the tip of the loop and the surface of the pole.
   
   I had also tied some other variations, where there are two individual, not-interlinked loops - but they were more complex, more bulky, and, because they were not equilibrated, they were "locked" at different distances from the tips of the bights - an ugly sight.
   As it happens to all knots, you have to tie it at least 12 times correctly, to appreciate it. Then, you can judge how complex it is, but only then, not at the start, when you only "see" entangled lines ad not the pattern where the logic of the mechanism drives them.
 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 02:15:19 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2015, 02:37:21 PM »
    What is the "simplest" single loop ? The overhand loop ( ABoK#1009 ). In this sense, the "simplest" Tackled hitch is based on this loop.
   1. Tie an overhand loop.
   2. Reeve its ends through its eye.
   3. Now, reeve them back through its nub. ( Each end can go through many "openings" of the nub, but this is secondary : the nub of this loop is sufficiently tight, and it will secure a penetrating line, independently of the particular path through the nub it will follow. )
   4. You are done ! You have your first Tackled hitch. Now, find something to wrap it around, and then start pulling and pulling the ends, the one after the other... In fact, there is only ONE thing you must remember, and you should never forget : your back !
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Ruby

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2015, 03:14:26 PM »
so you can change any loop knot into a self-lock trucker's hitch...

xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2015, 03:50:32 PM »
   Do not call anything that uses a mechanical advantage as a " trucker s hitch " ! :) :) The block and tackle simple machine, which is the rope "mechanism" which corresponds to the lever, has been studied by Archimedes and Heron, looong before trucks and drivers ! :)
   You mean, use any loop, and "roll" a rope-made block and tackle simple machine around an object, to make a tight hitch. Indeed you can.
   Now, there are two things you should pay attention to : When we say "any", we do not mean it ! :) In this configuration, first, you need a nub which would not be able to "walk" towards the tip of the eye, when it is dragged by the two lines which form it. This is a requirement an ordinary fixed loop does not have to satisfy - but a loop suitable for a Tackled hitch does. Then, you also need a nub which will not be severely deformed, if/when/while the penetrating ends are pulled against the pole, i.e., in a direction perpendicular to the axis of the loop. This is a more strict condition than one would expected.
   I have not been able to figure out a simpler / slimmer proper nub, which would remain fixed on its position, and not "walk" or rotate around itself, under those circumstances. Perhaps I have missed something... tie and try ! :)
   
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 03:51:56 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2015, 07:16:13 PM »
   Some more pictures ( all day, because of my spinal cord injuries caused by tight-hitching  ! ! :) :), I could nt tie even a f . overhand knot ! So, all that I could do, was to take some pictures of the hitch already tied on the poll... )
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 12:58:39 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2015, 07:20:18 PM »
  From the other side , which is "different" ( it is : one segment is a few mm longer ! :) )
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 08:37:39 AM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2015, 10:56:30 AM »
   I would like to mention two more things :
   1. When we start from a TIB loop, we end with a TIB hitch - as, perhaps, it should had been expected, from the path we drive the ends of the loop through, first, its own eye and, then, its nub. That means that, if we do NOT insert a TIB loop into our TIB-ness problem, we would not get back a TIB solution - unless we figure out different, more convoluted paths for the ends, and we are lucky.
   2. Those two-wrap hitches are meant to / should be easy to untie, because they may serve as temporary solutions. ( The 3/4 wraps TackleClamp hitch is a more permanent knot ). Therefore, we should use nubs which can be released with easy, even after the hitch has been tensioned as much as those hitches can be tensioned. This is a constrain which reduces the number of possible solutions more than we may think.

   For the record, see the images of the other Butterfly-looking tackled hitch I had mentioned in a previous post. As you can see, it is bulkier than my more recent solution. To refer to the previous paragraphs, it is TIB, just because the ( inverted or not ) Butterfly loop is TIB - BUT it is difficult to untie, because its nub does not present a convenient "handle" which one can grab and manipulate, to loosen some segments. Last but not least, its nub is bulkier : the two lines of the Butterfly loop are no only linked / hooked to each other, but they form (slipped ) overhand knots, while in my more recent solution they only form two interlinked nipping loops - which leads to a simpler and slimmer knot.   

   Am I sure that I had found the simplest/slimmest/more easy to untie solution ? Of course NOT ! :)  The interested reader may try his/hers own hand, and see what can be done. Starting from a fixed single loop, or a double loop with communicating bights, we may arrive to a plethora of Tackled two-wrap hitches - those I has shown should only be considered as the first steps of this journey.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2015, 11:00:04 AM by xarax »
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Ruby

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2015, 11:33:04 AM »
Maybe you can share your TIB method in picture, instead of verbal description.