Author Topic: Interesting Double Eight variations. The three musketeers and the odd man out.  (Read 8972 times)

xarax

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Interesting Double Eight variations. The three musketeers and the odd man out.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 03:17:56 AM by xarax »
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Dan_Lehman

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On a cursory reading, I see knots A..E **times 2** here
--the doubling coming from loading whichever ends.
(Actually, if one considers offset loading, there is yet
another multiplication (too late at night for me to think
about these)!)

There are some asymmetric eyeknot orientations seen in practice,
one of which has the SPart + parallel part's initial orientation
like "-A" here, but then the fold of the bight into the eye
breaks from this orientation into that of -"C", possibly induced
by torsion of the bight strands?!  (It is seen, e.g., on the
cover of The Outdoor Knots Book (not my fault!).)

I'll have to refer to Life on a Line's image to see if either
of "-B"/"-D" are what Dave Merchant recommends there --for
strength, but perhaps mainly for ease of untying.

(Note, however, how many references show --often by echoed
imagery-- a pure flat tracing of the two ends, which in material
of a round cross section is impossible to sustain, if even effect!)

Hmmm, just tried "-E"/"4-Rings" in soft 12mm(?) 12-strande
multifilament (nylon?) and it immediately became "-A" !?  Oh,
I loaded the upper left side (white) strand vs. its opposite
(and it became that loading of "-A").

--dl*
====

SS369

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I see 4 Musketeers. ;-)) And no muskets.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 04:44:29 PM by SS369 »

Dan_Lehman

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 I have not considered different loadings, for the sake of brevety. You are almost right, with different loadings, things are multiplied by 4 !  :)

Hmm, I say "3" :  upper-left strand vs. lower-right;
lower-left vs. upper-right;
and same side's (either / equal) strands pulled apart ("offset" loading).
--given the symmetry of the knots, i.e., the offset loading
is equal left side /right side.

(-;

xarax

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The 4Rings bend...the odd man out.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 03:26:17 AM »
...the odd man out. Starting from the 88-D double eight variation, if we pass the end/first collars over the central/second ones.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 02:07:03 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: Interesting,symmetric, Double Eight bend variations.
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2011, 11:38:38 AM »
   I have noticed some interest in the double eight bend variations recently, so I decided to post thebasic,  symmetric variations I had taken pictures of when I was studying this bend.
   ( I am sorry it would need more than one post, as I do not know how to attach more than 4 pictures on the same post.)
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xarax

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  2.
This is not a knot.

xarax

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   3.
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xarax

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   4. (And last ! :) So, with the addition of the 4-Rings variation, posted previously, they are 17 symmetric dressings/variations of the double eight bend...
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DDK

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 I have not considered different loadings, for the sake of brevety. You are almost right, with different loadings, things are multiplied by 4 !  :)

Hmm, I say "3" :  upper-left strand vs. lower-right;
lower-left vs. upper-right;
and same side's (either / equal) strands pulled apart ("offset" loading).
--given the symmetry of the knots, i.e., the offset loading
is equal left side /right side.

(-;

I think we are talking bends, so, I would say "2" - orange left vs. white right OR white left vs. orange right

Loading orange left vs. orange right is pulling on the same rope - the white rope would be rather short and not needed.    :D

DDK

edit: Oh, I see Dan's reference to offset loading - OK, it's "3"  ::)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 03:06:39 PM by DDK »

xarax

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   I find it so amusing - and so telling about how knot tyers are keep parroting other parrots parrotings  :) - the fact that nobody refers to this poor thread, which DARED to show that there are more than two symmetric variations of the retraced fig. 8 nub - so more than two symmetric variations of the fig. 8 bend or the fig. 8 loop, more than two "weak" or "strong" forms, more or less efficient forms, "right" or "wrong" forms, etc.
   It seems that one has to wait 70 more years, at least, until somebody publishes a new knot-bible, like Ashley did, which will contain all the symmetric variations of this knot - and knot tyers of the 22nd century start to parrot this 21st century new bible...
This is not a knot.