Author Topic: Single Locked Cow hitch II  (Read 11079 times)

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 04:05:29 PM »
   The ideal binding hitch is a staple driven into the tail of the rope, after passing it around the object a few times.

   Noope ! You miss the point of the "tight hitches" ! The ideal binding hitch is one in which the two ends of the "nipping coil" can both be tensioned, and remain tensioned, so, for any given number of wraps, there is more friction between the wraps of this coil and the surface of the object. In other words, without adding more wraps, this is the only way you get more friction : pre-tension those wraps, and "lock" the inserted tension inside them. When, later, the hitch will be loaded lengthwise, the wraps will have less room available to become elongated, and slip along the surface of the object.  Therefore, you should use friction from "upstream" AND from "downstream", at the same time ! And you should "lock" both ends, the Standing End AND the Tail End, so any tension inserted into the wraps during the pre-tightening, by the knot tyer, phase, can be accumulated, and be present there during the tightening, by the load, phase. 
   Read what that is written about "tight hitches" in this Forum - starting from the tightest of them, the TackleClamp hitch, and the successive steps which led to it.
   Always do read what dan Lehman says ( when he is not just whining, which, alas, happens very often...), but do not do what he does, by saying but not showing - better, do what he does not do very often : TAKE PICTURES of the knots you tie, and then post them in the Forum - do not just "fill lines" by "keystroking" (  as I do...  :)). 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 04:08:39 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 07:31:13 PM »
   Perhaps the easiest ( but not very transparent, regarding the reasoning which leads to it ) tying method of this hitch in-the-bight, is the one shown in the attached pictures : Starting from the nipping loop and the eye of an Eskimo bowline, we form a bight on the returning eye leg, then we twist it 180 degrees, and finally we reeve it through this nipping loop, the Eskimo-bowline-like way. The eye of the Eskimo bowline, on the one hand, and the eye of this bight, one the other, will become the two wraps of the hitch.
   I have to admit that I no longer see any cow in this field... :) I see a two-eye noose ( with "communicating" bights/eyes ), and, if I have nt tied it, I would nt be able to predict how on Earth this loose structure is going to be transformed into a "tight hitch" !
   Therefore, a knot tyer who learns to tie this knot that way, probably he/she will never understand how it "works", and will not see neither the mechanical advantage, nor the opposing bights locking mechanism involved.

( At the third attached picture, the path the axis of the pole should follow, while it will penetrate the eyes/wraps, is shown with a yellow line. It should go "over"-"under"-"under"-"over" the two pairs of legs, going from the left to the right.)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:49:38 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2015, 11:12:09 PM »
This is indeed a very tight hitch. I found it quickly learned and easy to understand how it works. One must remember the twist or it does not work well.

I used BlueWater II 3/8" around multiple diameters (1"-3") of PVC pipe. Due to the diameter of the smallest pipe, the rope diameter was too bulky, but it still worked. I had only loaded the samplings to 300# and each was simple enough to untie. Although I would like to load it higher and I reserve personal judgement on the ease of untying till then.

This is a practical knot and I like this hitch.

SS

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2015, 11:36:56 PM »
   Thank you SS369,

   Looking at your picture, I notice that you tie the Cow hitch in the opposite way that I use to do ( the mirror-symmetric way ). Are you left-handed ?  :)  :) - because I think that the right-handed persons will tend to place the "main", pre-tightening end ( the one which is connected to its wrap directly, without the intervention of the nipping loop ) at the left side of the picture ( or am I mistaken on this ? ).
   In general, in all those tight hitches, it is better if you pull the one end after the other, alternatively, but in this one you can not to this - however, it is good if you pull the "secondary" end from time to time during pre-tightening, to make the nipping loop shrink as much as possible, and "bite" the "main" end deeper.
   I have also seen that it may beneficial, just before the final pull of the "main" end during pre-tightening, to PUSH the rim of the nipping loop towards the surface of the pole, as far as it goes. That way you help the wraps consume the last millimetres of their length, and the final pull of the "main" end makes the hitch even tighter.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 11:38:18 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2015, 11:53:34 PM »
   Thank you SS369,

   Looking at your picture, I notice that you tie the Cow hitch in the opposite way that I use to do ( the mirror-symmetric way ). Are you left-handed ?  :)  :) - because I think that the right-handed persons will tend to place the "main", pre-tightening end ( the one which is connected to its wrap directly, without the intervention of the nipping loop ) at the left side of the picture ( or am I mistaken on this ? ).
   

You might be mistaken. I believe I just flipped the knot to show some more details. I did tie it as the exploded view displayed it.

S

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 12:37:46 AM »
  I did tie it as the exploded view displayed it.

  If you were looking the "exploded view" in the mirror of your bathroom, indeed you did !  :)  :) :)
  A simple Cow hitch, tied on a pole, can be tied and oriented so that the two horizontal ends are running "under" the tip of the U-turn-shaped bight, or "over" it. Most of the times, I tie and orient it so that the ends pass "under" the tip. Except from the knot shown in the second picture of the first post, and the first picture of Reply#15, all the other Cow hitches are tied and oriented that way - including yours !
   Now, in that orientation ( when the ends pass "under" the tip of the bight ), the "main" end can be at the left or at the right side of the "secondary" end. In all the knots shown in my pictures, it is at the left - in your knot, it is at the right.
   See the attached picture, where I have marked the "main" end with a red line : it is at the right side of the "secondary" end, which is connected with the nipping loop.
   In the "exploded view" the pole is supposed to pass "over"-"under"-"under"-"over" the legs of the eyes, whish become wraps. It can not pass in any other way, and form a hitch. ( I will edit my picture, and draw a yellow line to show this path )
   Am I missing something, or should I buy a new pair of glasses ?  :)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:53:12 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Tex

  • Guest
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2015, 12:53:20 AM »
Hi xarax, I didn't mean ideal tight hitch.  I meant ideal binding hitch, as in, one that binds ideally (but isn't probably ideally useful). An "ideal" tight hitch has to balance some factors and as such there probably is no single ideal.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2015, 01:18:50 AM »
   I see. You were talking about pure binding knots ( I do not believe that the term "binding hitch" makes much sense ).
   A "tight hitch" may serve as a binder, but if it is not of the noose-hitch kind ( like the Bull Clove hitch, or the ABoK #1126 - Double Ring hitch ), it will need the support, under the "locking" nub, of the surface of one bound object to work. Most of the times, it will serve as a most secure hitch, able to withstand a lengthwise pull better than the "old" hitches used for this purpose. However, such a hitch will be really successful in this role, only if it has 4, at least wraps ( the TackleClamp hitch, and the Locked Double Cow hitch ), and even 6 or 8 wraps ( the Locked Double Prusik hitch ). Hitches with two, omly, wraps, like the ones  shown in this thread, if they are pulled lengthwise, they will slide, only they will slide slower and less, because their grip on the pole is much stronger than the classic snug hitches.
   So, a "tight hitch" has to utilize the tricks of the binders ( the Zig Zags of the Standing Part ), the tricks of the hitches ( the immobilization of the Tail End ), and the tricks of the Jam knots ( the immobilization of the Standing End ). Now, moebius demands them be not only TIB, but also EEL ! Quite a looong list of "purposes" !   :)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 08:36:46 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1795
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2015, 03:01:45 AM »
  I did tie it as the exploded view displayed it.

  If you were looking the "exploded view" in the mirror of your bathroom, indeed you did !  :)  :) :)
  A simple Cow hitch, tied on a pole, can be tied and oriented so that the two horizontal ends are running "under" the tip of the U-turn-shaped bight, or "over" it. Most of the times, I tie and orient it so that the ends pass "under" the tip. Except from the knot shown in the second picture of the first post, and the first picture of Reply#15, all the other Cow hitches are tied and oriented that way - including yours !
   Now, in that orientation ( when the ends pass "under" the tip of the bight ), the "main" end can be at the left or at the right side of the "secondary" end. In all the knots shown in my pictures, it is at the left - in your knot, it is at the right.
   See the attached picture, where I have marked the "main" end with a red line : it is at the right side of the "secondary" end, which is connected with the nipping loop.
   In the "exploded view" the pole is supposed to pass "over"-"under"-"under"-"over" the legs of the eyes, whish become wraps. It can not pass in any other way, and form a hitch. ( I will edit my picture, and draw a yellow line to show this path )
   Am I missing something, or should I buy a new pair of glasses ?  :)


Nooope. No mirrors, nor smoke. ;D
No need for new glasses this time, either.

I had captured the image using a laptop camera, so, it was seen from an away (bottom) perspective, And when I held the sample to capture it one of the legs fell to another orientation. The non- nub leg fell to the left of the nub leg.
Flip your sample over and move the (secondary?) leg to the left and all is well. Same knot I do believe.

SS

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2015, 03:19:01 AM »
   Of course it is the same ( mirror symmetric ) knot - and perhaps your orientation is preferable, because the end that should/could be pulled, is closer the strong, right hand... ( Although I pre-tighten those hitches using both hands - and both feet, oftentimes !  :) )
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2015, 03:40:05 AM »
   In reply#15 I had taken pictures of four different views of the knot, and, in an effort to help the reader avoid the dizziness, I used labels of cardinal and intermediate directions !  :) ( NW, W, E, SE ) - but I guess that nobody had noticed it.  :)
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2015, 01:58:46 PM »
   Pictures of the loose and the compact-tightened knot of the either-end-loadable Locked Cow hitch (EEL).
   Notice that if the hitched object was transparent or invisible  :), the loose knot would look like a two-eye noose ( where the one, the right side part, would look like a part of an "Eskimo" bowline, and the left side wrap like a bight formed on the returning eye leg, twisted around itself 180 degrees, and then reeved through the nipping loop of this "Eskimo" bowline ).
   However, if we "see" this knot as derived from such a double noose, the cow is not visible any more - or it becomes 100% transparent !  :) The knot tyer may tie the knot more easily, yet he/she may miss the deeper understanding of how it "works", which is always not a good thing...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 03:05:04 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Tex

  • Guest
Re: Single Locked Cow hitch II
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2015, 05:28:33 PM »
   I see. You were talking about pure binding knots ( I do not believe that the term "binding hitch" makes much sense ).
   A "tight hitch" may serve as a binder, but if it is not of the noose-hitch kind ( like the Bull

Well, no, I was talking about the extreme of what a hitch lknot (with one standing end and one tail) would have to look like to optimize its binding properties at the absurd expense of its other properties.  I thought it was an obvious enough word play given the clearly useless example I gave, but apparently it wasn't.  Sometimes things seem more obvious in one's own head than in someone else's.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 05:29:21 PM by Tex »

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
"Cross-gartered" 3-wraps Locked Cow hitch
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2015, 05:13:01 PM »
   All the various 2-wrap "tight hitches" can withstand a lengthwise pull much better than all the 2-wrap classic hitches - but not very much. Wrapped around a slippery pole, tied on a slippery rope, and pulled by a heavy load, sooner or later they will slide along the surface. To improve them, there is only one thing we can do more : add a third wrap.
   I understand that I forget things, but, fortunately, I do not forget what I understand... :)  We have seen, in the case of the hitches shown in ABoK s 22nd chapter, that the "cross-gartering" of the wraps is a most efficient way to improve a lengthwise-pulled multi-wrap hitch : Under a lengthwise pull, the wraps become elongated and elliptically shaped - but since their circumference increases while the amount of material remains the same, their tension increases, too.
   If we use the same method in a "tight hitch", where the wraps are already very tight, the situation improves. One has only to pay attention, and load the hitch from its lower point, so, under a loading from below, all the crossed wraps above its nub can spread along the surface of the pole, and, after they become elongated, they also become even more tight, so even more effective in "gluing" the hitch on the surface of the pole.
   See the same either-end-loadable ( EEL ) Locked Cow hitch shown in the previous posts, with the addition of one more wrap - which third wrap is free to drag along it the upper second wrap of the Cow hitch, and form a single 8-shape wrap on top of the lower first one.
   My preliminary trials convinced me that this third wrap is worth the added material, indeed ; the basic 2-wrap Locked Cow hitch now becomes a hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull, even when wrapped around slippery poles and tied on slippery ropes, much more efficiently than any other hitch shown in ABoK - even than the 4- and 5- wrap hitches. The interested reader may compare it with any "classic", not "tight" hitch he knows, and report his findings.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Note :
  I feel I have to mention one more thing, that I have nt seen written anywhere ( perhaps because my knowledge of the vast knotting litterature remains rudimental...) : There may be a kind of leverage in such hitches, meant to be pulled along the axis of the pole, which can play an important role : it is the leverage made possible by the presence of a voluminous and properly placed nub, in between the surface of the pole and the end of the Standing end, which can work like a fulcrum. When we pull the one end which stems from the nub, the Standing end, the other end, which is directly connected to the wraps, tends to rotate around the axis of this fulcrum, and, provided that the geometry of the mechanism is favourable, it pulls the wraps with more strength, or it pulls them with less strength but more quickly, than the strength or the pace we ourselves pull the Standing End.
   If we could tie such a nub-fulcrum which could rotate around itself, and if the distance, from the axis of its rotation, of the point where the Standing end was attached, was, say, half the distance of the point where the direct continuation of the "lower" wrap was attached, we would had been able to get a 2:1 mechanical advantage. If it was, say, two times this distance, we would get a 1:2 mechanical disadvantage, but then even a small displacement of the Standing End could insert more tension into the wraps, by forcing the end connected directly to them to be "consumed" at twice the pace. I will say no more here - better ask TEX about mechanical advantages !  :)   
         
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 04:35:51 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
cross-gartered Locked Cow hitch
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2015, 09:22:57 PM »
   How do we tie the 3-wrap cross-gartered Locked Cow hitch, in-the-bight ? By following the same tying method with which we tie the 2-wrap EEL Locked Cow hitch, shown in Replies#18 and #28 ((1)(2)) - only now we have to transfigure the reeved bight into the form of an "8", and we have to insert the pole through both openings of this "8" ( or vice versa : make both openings of the "8" "swallow" the accessible end of the pole ). So we can tie it with the same simple method, only we have to twist 180 degrees the reeved bight beyond its middle once more, to form the two "upper" wraps of the hitch.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5250.msg34831#msg34831
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5250.msg34850#msg34850
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 09:47:23 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.