Author Topic: Simple_TIB_loop  (Read 5508 times)

enhaut

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Simple_TIB_loop
« on: March 13, 2015, 08:50:47 PM »
Maybe done here ,
But the thing is that this site dont propose a Search engine based on pictures only and I have not the patience to go through all post!
Lazy me...
Does this loop can be consided belonging to the Pretzel nip family or not?
Picture = Simple TIB Loop
Picture = Steps for solution

enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 04:43:31 PM »
Xarax,
Am I wrong assuming that creating another bight in the working end after the Pretzel part permits to achieve a TIB loop ?
Anyway that form seems more resistant to ring loading.

enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2015, 02:29:45 PM »
Here is a tying method done in the bight to obtain the helical loop present at the beginning of this post.
It is one route among others, I am sure that some known IGKT gifted members (Alan Lee for one) are able to reach the same knot using an atypical path who could be more easy to practice.
In the meantime this recipe should do the trick.


Some months after I discovered this simple loop I learned that this structure could be regard as versatile in many ways; for it is TIB and PET(2).
Then Xarax had is eureka moment (3 and a half second) and found out that helical loops are of a special breed; since the open helix is a state of the straigh line they can accommodate any number of turns the tyer wishes to add.

Note that if you want to add more turns to your loop pay special attention to step 5 (it's time to add...)later on it will be well... too late.
It is also a good thing to inspect the loop present at the start, the tyer will have a good idea of the final dressing.

This loop can be tied in the "reverse" form see at the same post reply and Xarax's photos at number 3

I am planning to show the TIB's recipe of this loop too.

vendredi 15 mai 19;34 pm
the pictures were edited since "not so blind" Xarax found a mistake in my earlier drawing, now all is in order (I hope :) )
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 12:39:04 AM by enhaut »

enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2015, 12:42:19 AM »
Corrections done :'(
It is the good side of working with B?zier curves there is always time to step back an repair.
Hope the 2 colors one does the job.

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2015, 01:41:55 AM »
Maybe done here ,
But the thing is that this site dont propose a Search engine based on pictures only and I have not the patience to go through all post!
Lazy me...
Does this loop can be consided belonging to the Pretzel nip family or not?
Picture = Simple TIB Loop
Picture = Steps for solution

I don't want to leap in where I'm not wanted, however would you like me to trial this knot on my rig? A quick test of breaking strength and one to see if the knot jams after load. I'm using: 3mm, Smooth (16 plait), polyester braid with a breakload of 200Kg.

Assuming you would like a trial, what dressing should I use?

Cheers,

mobius
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 03:14:32 AM by mobius »

enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2015, 03:14:24 AM »
Hi Mobius,
Always welcome;
Sure if you are able to do tests (trials) have fun with that loop.
Also try the 2 versions ( the "reverse" at reply 3). I suspect that the "reverse" one is less jam prone...
As for the dressing I for now tye a 3 turns version it seems more "balance" this way and the "look" is better.
I found out that this loop "behave" naturally in the final dressing when - after the  upper collar is dispose - the lelf limb (picture final dressing) and the right eye leg are pull in opposition.

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 04:44:04 AM »
Hi Mobius,
Always welcome;
Sure if you are able to do tests (trials) have fun with that loop.
Also try the 2 versions ( the "reverse" at reply 3). I suspect that the "reverse" one is less jam prone...
As for the dressing I for now tye a 3 turns version it seems more "balance" this way and the "look" is better.
I found out that this loop "behave" naturally in the final dressing when - after the  upper collar is dispose - the lelf limb (picture final dressing) and the right eye leg are pull in opposition.

I wasn't sure I made the right 3 turns. Hopefully the poor quality picture below shows what I did well enough. Is that the version you would like me to trial?

Cheers,

Mobius

enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2015, 12:10:07 PM »
Quote
( the variations I had tied and suggest ), OR its Standing Part after the eye ( enhaut s variations ).

Tut  tut, Xarax manners please;

Good etiquette suggest that one should always present others before himself  :) :) :) :) :) (hiding behind smileys?)
Mobius you will have to return to the drawing board (as I did) if Xarax spotted something fishy be sure of his alert.
Make the loop in the simple form first before trying to add more turns.

Picture = 3 (or is it 4?) turns simple H loop
I always have trouble counting turns, anyway...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 12:43:49 PM by enhaut »

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2015, 03:32:19 PM »
Quote
( the variations I had tied and suggest ), OR its Standing Part after the eye ( enhaut s variations ).

Tut  tut, Xarax manners please;

Good etiquette suggest that one should always present others before himself  :) :) :) :) :) (hiding behind smileys?)
Mobius you will have to return to the drawing board (as I did) if Xarax spotted something fishy be sure of his alert.
Make the loop in the simple form first before trying to add more turns.

Picture = 3 (or is it 4?) turns simple H loop
I always have trouble counting turns, anyway...

Thanks for the picture, that helped. I tried tying your loop in the TIB fashion and I see I got the 3 loops in the wrong order somehow. Sticking to the end way of tying I am sure I have replicated your pictured knot. I will try and find some time tomorrow to trial it  :)

Cheers,

mobius

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 11:17:27 AM »
Hi enhaut,

I trialled your knot with 3mm; Smooth Polyester Braid (16 plait); breakload 200Kg tonight. I am confident I dressed the knot the way you like it, 3 turns positioned where you prefer them.

Trial 1: My material is what I consider quite stiff to work with and tying any knot and getting it to dress well can be a little challenging. When I tied this knot it did seem to dress easily and nicely. I started to load it I noticed the tail start to slip and at close to 80Kg load it started to collapse with the loops rolling towards the tail away from the eye. I stopped the trial before total collapse and tried untying the somewhat collapsed knot. It did untie with a little effort. After quite a few trials of different knots that are supposed to be non-jamming and those reputed to jam I have surmised that for my particular rope diameter and material that anything I can actually spend a few minutes attacking with my fingers resulting in success is 'easy untying'.

I suspect that this knot needs to be cinched better than I did it in the first trial.

Trial 2: I spent some time cinching the knot (new rope) as tightly as I could. This time the knot held, no tail slippage was observed. The rope broke at ~125Kg. This was a little lower than I expected since the SParts first major bend goes around two diameters and is well through the knot (which can be a good thing from things I've read here), though I wonder if one diameter was simply hiding behind the other one under load.

I make no claim to what these two trials might mean for other rope diameters and materials. I would suggest though to make sure to cinch this knot well if you trial it, I think it might be a knot that likes to be tight.

Cheers,

mobius. 


enhaut

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 03:38:03 PM »
Hi Mobius,
It would have been a good idea to also trial the loop in its simple form, if you have the time someday.

Quote
I think it might be a knot that likes to be tight.
As all the helical loops I think.

Thanks for tying it!

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 10:50:46 PM »
Hi Mobius,
It would have been a good idea to also trial the loop in its simple form, if you have the time someday.

Quote
I think it might be a knot that likes to be tight.
As all the helical loops I think.

Thanks for tying it!

You are welcome.

I will do the basic form tonight, time permitting.

Mobius

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Re: Simple_TIB_loop
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 11:34:18 AM »
Hi Mobius,
It would have been a good idea to also trial the loop in its simple form, if you have the time someday.

Quote
I think it might be a knot that likes to be tight.
As all the helical loops I think.

Thanks for tying it!

You are welcome.

I will do the basic form tonight, time permitting.

The basic form went well in my trial, no hint of slippage. With some patience I was able to untie it by hand after a heavy load (over 120kg). The breaking point was over 140Kg. It is possible that the 3 turning loops version I tried isn't as good as the basic version. It would take a lot more trials to better understand what is going on here. The basic form looks more promising to me though.

Cheers,

mobius.