Author Topic: PET diamond loop  (Read 13225 times)

Ruby

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PET diamond loop
« on: November 23, 2014, 04:50:14 AM »


if the diamond knot is PET post eye tiable ,
then it may be a good practical end-of-line fixed loop knot?

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 04:52:04 AM »
ABoK #787


Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 04:53:29 AM »
wiki pic



retucked carrick bend

xarax

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 06:21:01 AM »
  if the diamond knot is PET post eye tiable ,
  then it may be a good practical end-of-line fixed loop knot ?

   I have not found a simple way to tie it in-the-(one) end... To be "practical", it should be not only "post-eye-tiable", but also "easily-tiable" !  :)
This is not a knot.

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 08:29:20 AM »
1. post eye

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:41:18 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 08:30:17 AM »
2. make 1st overhand loop using the standing part

   you can hold this crossing point A using left hand thumb and index finger during all the next steps



« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:42:52 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2014, 08:31:04 AM »
3. make 2nd overhand loop , over point A.
   hold tightly crossing point A


« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:42:29 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 08:31:47 AM »
4. put the working end through the hole between the two loop. (elbow?) .

  hold all those (5) rope parts at crossing point A.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:42:05 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 08:32:22 AM »
5. weave using working end.
    1 over, 2 under, 3 over, 4 under, 5 over, 6 under, 7 over
 
  hold tightly crossing point A during weaving


« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:41:40 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2014, 08:33:01 AM »
6. put working end throuth the center hole




.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:43:36 AM by Ruby »

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 08:33:43 AM »
7. pull four ends to dress the diamond knot

end






left hand holds the crossing point A all the time, right hand does the weaving.

not  so easily-tiable.
but not too difficult, after practicing one or two times.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 08:44:14 AM by Ruby »

xarax

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 09:15:50 AM »
   "Easily-tiable" is referring to the required effort of the brain cells, not of the muscle cells !   :)
    The much easier to remember how to tie Tweedledee bowline (1) was criticized as overcomplicated for the average climber - and it may be, indeed. Therefore, I do not believe that anybody else except the two of us will tie this beautiful 3D rosette ! You have simplified the tying procedure a lot (*)( using less than a thousand words, I have to admit... :)), but not enough, I am afraid. It is a pity, because, judging from its form, I believe that this knot will be easy to untie, even after heavy loading ...

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3989.msg28582#msg28582

(*) The alternating over/under pattern was a clever trick !
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 09:32:41 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2014, 08:11:56 PM »
   "Easily-tiable" is referring to the required effort of the brain cells, not of the muscle cells !   :)
Not so fast --it looks to be a mess of over/under reeving,
and the necessity to secure the inchoate knot until all
is done.

Quote
It is a pity, because, judging from its form, I believe
that this knot will be easy to untie, even after heavy loading ...

That hardly distinguishes it from the many bowlinesque
options one has, among many others, to boot, all of which
are more easily tied.

Now, I remain open to a personal reassessment after I've
taken time to work this all through --gave a cursory try in
cord of insufficient length for all the workings, so far.


--dl*
====

xarax

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 02:07:45 PM »
   I can not ignore the beautiful pattern of this knot, the perfect symmetry between the "nipping" ( before the eye ) and the "nipped" ( after the eye ) structures, and the way the segments are interwoven - meeting each other at the "right" angle ( 90 degrees, the right angle ) while, at the same time, leaving so much "empty" space in between them ( therefore, making the nub able to absorb a sudden heavy pull, without running the danger to become more compact, and jam ). I believe that, regarding the easiness of untying, this knot might be proven to be better than the also perfectly symmetric but already much more dense and compact Tweedledee bowline ( no "empty" space there whatsoever ), which runs the danger to become too tightly woven. The clever way of tying it Ruby has devised, with the simple, easy to remember form of the first, before the eye, part, and the alternating over/under reeving of the Working End during the formation of the second, after the eye, part, reduces its complexity a lot. Moreover, I do not see any points during this particular tying procedure where one can do a mistake, like the one that can happen during the tying of the Tweedledee bowline (1).  Tying it the minimum number of times I need to tie in order to understand any knot ( 12... ), my greatest difficulty was always on the two last crossings, the 6th and the 7th : I believe that it is easy to make a mistake there, and go over/under instead of under/over, because the Working End crosses the two legs of the eye, and it is difficult to remember that those crossings should be ignored in the alternating over/under pattern... 
   In short, Ruby has done a great job, by pointing out a supposedly well known perfectly symmetric bend and loop ( which I, for one, had missed... ), and teaching a not-so-easy but also not terribly complex tying method. I believe this bend and this loop deserve a special place in any knot tyers collection, next to the Tweedledee bend and loop. Unfortunately, just like the Tweedledee bowline, the loop is not TIB, and I have came to believe that the versatility of a TIB end-of-line loop is also too much to ignore.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3989.msg28205#msg28205 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:09:24 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Ruby

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Re: PET diamond loop
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2014, 06:07:09 PM »
...my greatest difficulty was always on the two last crossings, the 6th and the 7th : I believe that it is easy to make a mistake there, and go over/under instead of under/over, because the Working End crosses the two legs of the eye, and it is difficult to remember that those crossings should be ignored in the alternating over/under pattern... 
   ...


well, actualy last 2 crossings (the 6th and the 7th) and those in the next step ( 8th and 9th?) can be done in one step, 1 second.

because left hand is holding those crossing points all the time, using thumb and index finger.

just follow your thumb and index finger!  I think it's easy if you do it like this.