Author Topic: Just another loop  (Read 5036 times)

alanleeknots

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Just another loop
« on: August 14, 2014, 03:29:32 AM »
Hi All,
       I like this not bad looking and well secure loop, the two eye legs and the standing part can freely
       apply presure to the nub, and very easy to untie after heavey load.

       謝謝  alan lee

« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 03:32:37 AM by eric22 »

xarax

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 02:47:26 PM »
   Although the flow of the rope weaves a nice nub, I can not forget that the nipping loop encircles two, only, rope diameters - so it remains narrow and not very round. The temptation to let the Working end penetrate the nipping loop as it moves form the "first" to the second "collar" is , to me, irresistible !  :) In a way, that enlargement of the nipping loop justifies all the long journey of the Working End "up" and "down" the nub.
   So, by making the Working End pass through the nipping loop, we get just another Link bowline (1)( See the attached pictures ). Unfortunately, although the Link bowlines are very secure and compact knots, they can not be modified easily to TIB loops - the THIRD requirement of a ""PERFECT"" eyeknot  :) ( PET, wide/round nipping loop / first curve, TIB ).

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4314.15
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 03:33:51 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 06:20:06 AM »
Hi All,
       Xarax Thanks for the reply.
       Since the loop above work well, might as well give the left hand version a try, turn out not bad at all.
       It have 4 ropes diameter on the nipping loop, well secure and very easy to untie after heavy loading.
       For Blue water rope need more effort to dress it tie,too complicate to tie this loop, not sure?

       謝謝  alan lee,

      I have to reduce some weight because both of these ropes has been used for few time, getting little weak.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 06:29:07 AM by eric22 »

xarax

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014, 09:17:13 AM »
   It seems over-tangled to me - which means an over-engineered, over-complicated or over-built knot  :) (1).
   Also, I do not like the fact that, although the main nipping loop encircles 4 rope diameters, the first collar encircles only 2 - it could well had encircled 3, in such a bulky knot, even for reasons of the sought "balance" between the nipping and the collar structures. In that case, most probably you would had led to tie a more complex Link bowline, which is not needed, IMHO. I also noticed that, during tying, the final tucking of the Tail End seems too labyrinthine...
   
  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overengineering

P.S. See such a wide nipping loop Link bowline at (2). Very easy to remember how to tie and to tie, because it requires just the same thing the parent Link bowline requires, performed twice. However, we should always use such double nipping loops with caution, because they can clinch tightly around themselves.
   2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4314.msg32916#msg32916
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 11:43:00 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2014, 04:36:48 AM »
Hi All,
       I have another loop here, by the the look at it I think she is fine.
       Just so busy working, do'nt have chance to do the testing, when I got it tested,
       I will post the picture again.
       Thanks again Xarax, This time I think the tail will find it way home.
     
        謝謝  alan lee.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 04:39:07 AM by eric22 »

xarax

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2014, 10:13:17 AM »
   Congratulations, Alan Lee. Chapeau.
   A truly remarkable crossing knot-based bowline : wide curves / yet compact, intricately entangled / yet moderately convoluted, clearly traced so easily inspected paths of all the lines, an almost perfect balance between the nipping and the collar structures which occupy almost the same volume into the knot s nub, a revolutionary φ-shaped crossing knot ... I believe it is one of the most rigid structures you had tied, after the beauty of the Lee s locket bowline ( re-tucked Yosemite bowline ).
   I should had waited the evening to take pictures of it - because one can not have the shadows he wishes early in the morning - but I just could nt waited so long !  :) So, I intervened at the final files a little bit... However, as we all know, you can tell a creature is beautiful in the morning - perhaps dreams, rather than reality, which should shape faces. Thia is a beautiful "she"  :), no picture can hide this fact !

   P.S. The reader should compare this beauty with the other, similar one :
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4125.msg32012#msg32012
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 10:22:52 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 03:14:45 PM »
   Drawing (.km) file of the Lie s Overhand collar, φ-shaped crossing knot bowline, presented at Reply#4 (1).
  The ( blue) non-symmetric Pretzel-shaped = Overhand knot collar structure is clearly shown, and the (red) φ-shaped crossing knot nipping structure is clearly shown, too.
   In comparison to the "similar" knot shown at (2), we see that now the Pretzel collar structure is "closed" = topologically equivalent to the Overhand knot, and that it is oriented "horizontally", not "vertically". 

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4988.msg32927#msg32927
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4125.msg32934#msg32934
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 03:19:36 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 02:47:03 AM »
Hi All,
         Xarax, again Thanks you very much for the valuable comments and your beautiful picture. I got this Lee s φ crossing knot bowline
          tested, It holding very well under heavy load, not deformed at all. and very easy to untie too.

          謝謝  alan lee   

alanleeknots

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 06:47:13 AM »
Hi All,
       I thinks this loop here is not that complicate to tie, even though the nipping loop near the standing part side
       are not nipping the last portion of tail, it is still very well secure. and easy to untie after heavy load.
       (This two ropes has been used few time, these are the maximan weight it can carry.)

       After all these then I realise this loop is a revert version of one of my previous loop.
       See this (http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4706.0)

       謝謝  alan lee

xarax

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Re: Just another loop
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 09:48:34 AM »
...this loop is a reversed version of one of my previous loops.
       

  The previous loop was much better - because it is almost perfectly balanced  : the continuation of the Standing End, which bears the 100% of the load, bisects the angle formed by the two legs of the eye, each of which bear 50% of the load. 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 10:11:21 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.