Author Topic: Bushby Manuscript  (Read 4778 times)

Sweeney

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Bushby Manuscript
« on: February 23, 2014, 01:10:33 PM »
In Knotting Matters #121 Des Pawson seeks volunteers to type an old manuscript (the Bushby Manuscript) and gives the following link:
http://www.marinersmuseum.org/library/notes-knots-henry-bushby-manuscript. When I try this I get a login page and although a site search does produce one page (reproduced in KM) I cannot find any way of registering other than paying to become a museum member. Anyone out there help (I am in the UK so visitor membership is of little use to me)?

Barry

SS369

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 03:20:17 PM »
I don't find a way of registering, for free viewing, either. It seems to be a $ contributing member only site.

But if one wants to view some of the manuscript pages (not sure if these are all), here is a link to Volume 1 http://librarygallery.marinersmuseum.org/exhibits/show/bushby/vol1 and then you can browse Vol. 2 through Vol. 8.
The graphics are click-able.
http://librarygallery.marinersmuseum.org/exhibits/show/bushby

SS
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 12:46:38 AM by SS369 »

Sweeney

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2014, 04:24:36 PM »
Thanks for that - I just typed the link printed in KM and searched the site itself. I wonder if there is anything original here? I cannot the point of typing material already well known although scanned copies may be of interest if done at a fairly high resolution. I find the text is very difficult to read.

Barry

SS369

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2014, 04:58:25 PM »
Thanks for that - I just typed the link printed in KM and searched the site itself. I wonder if there is anything original here? I cannot the point of typing material already well known although scanned copies may be of interest if done at a fairly high resolution. I find the text is very difficult to read.

Barry

You're welcome Barry.
I find the handwritten text tough to decipher as well and that may be the point. For the interested reader...
Although it is my native language, most of it looks like hieroglyphics to me.  ;)  Nicely penned though.

SS

dfred

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 06:55:31 PM »
I wonder if there is anything original here?

It has been looked through before by Guild members and others, but it is extensive enough that there may lurk some interesting tidbits.  At least one article, by Pieter van de Griend, was published about Bushby and the manuscript in Knot News (No. 30, 2001).

Pieter also included a reproduction of a diagram from Notes on Knots showing a Constrictor knot that predates any other known graphical depiction. (Knot News, no. 62, 2007). (The earliest known published diagram being from 1931.)  According to that KN article the constrictor knot appears in Vol. 1, p. 249 of Bushby under the name "Gunner's knot", and was apparently tied based on the (ambiguous) text description by "Tom Bowling".

With the full digitizing complete, it will be quite interesting to see what's found as many more people are able pore over the manuscript...

EDIT:  And also an earlier thread about this:  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3955
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 07:02:35 PM by dfred »

Wed

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2014, 07:36:39 PM »
Why is it not on Gutenberg.org ?

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014, 01:49:27 AM »
I find the text is very difficult to read.
Barry
Although it is my native language,
most of it looks like hieroglyphics to me.  ;)
Nicely penned though.
SS
Bushby has beautiful hand and good eye,
but --yes-- it can be difficult to make out all
of the lettering.   (His illustrations are gorgeous!)

Barry wondered about "anything original", and so
far as I've seen --in person, mind, twice-- what
Bushby offers is a sound, critical review of the
then extant knotting texts (well, implicit in some
comments on their assertions), willing to call a spade
a "spade" (e.g., "... a hopeless bungle" ! --this,
of what I've called the Wot?Knot, which nevertheless
appears in several other books, in various variation,
as though it really is worthwhile (and some of them
plagiarizing the words claiming that)!!  (Hansel & Gretel
has it twice if not more; they plagiarize Hasluck!)).

There are yet mysteries : of that peculiar worthless
"hopeless bungle" cited above, Bushby has some
cryptic source reference, but sadly the particular
one doesn't map into his list of sources put in at
the front of the set of books --even though, in my
2nd viewing, I found several such citations (to that
work) IN THE 1st VOL. !!?

And, re the constrictor, yes, he does make a quite
reasonable graphic manifestation of "Tom Bowling's"
words; and yet, although Bushby often included some
remarks about knots --such as working attribures--,
he here writes NOTHING : how could the c. fail
to elicit at least some remark about its tenacity
(even if not believed to be king of that)!?  That absence
of comment rings loudly to my mind --most odd!?


--dl*
====

Sweeney

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 11:17:34 AM »
Bushby has beautiful hand and good eye,
but --yes-- it can be difficult to make out all
of the lettering.   (His illustrations are gorgeous!)

Indeed so. About 40 years ago I had a colleague whose handwriting - even with a ballpoint (the enemy of good handwriting) - was the most beautiful copperplate, even on the most trivial of documents. But it was a pain to read! Even now I carry an italic fountain pen in my shirt pocket for those moments when I can write rather than type or scribble. This manuscript is to me as much a work of art as it is a treatise on knots and I would like to see more of it but typescript (even if that were possible given the mixture of text and graphics on the page) somehow diminishes this. Hopefully the museum will scan this in full but if there is original material perhaps this could be prioritised?

Why is it not on Gutenberg.org ?

This is a unique copy (not a printed book in the public domain which is what Gutenberg publish) - I assume the museum are not prepared to let it out of their possession as this issue seems to have been around for at least 13 years.

Barry

Wed

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 02:36:03 PM »
Why is it not on Gutenberg.org ?

This is a unique copy (not a printed book in the public domain which is what Gutenberg publish) - I assume the museum are not prepared to let it out of their possession as this issue seems to have been around for at least 13 years.

Barry

Thanks for the answer. I suppose the question should have gone to the museum really. But since it is in the public domain and want people to work on it. The scanned pages could very well be submitted to Gutenberg. People visit that place in order to find something interesting to work on. Gutenberg also have the infrastructure to allow the work to be done.

The museum don't have an ulterior motive fencing the document in like that do they? That would be a not so public, public domain ...

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2014, 06:18:11 PM »
Why is it not on Gutenberg.org ?

This is a unique copy
(not a printed book in the public domain which is what Gutenberg publish) ...
...

The museum don't have an ulterior motive fencing the document in like that do they?
That would be a not so public, public domain ...

One should hope not.  Given the nature of the work
--esoteric, out-of-mainstream, parochial, ... knots(!)--,
the fear would be that it be deemed unworthy of any
restoration/publication effort, and ... lost from posterity!
It is good, thus, to see at last this effort to retain it
and make it widely available (to those scattered few
who have keen interest).  The IGKT held an Annual
Meeting at Newport-News / Maritime Museum and
so brought a group of "esoteric...."-minded knotty
people into close proximity with it --some of whom
indulged that opportunity.


--dl*
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Wed

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 02:09:35 PM »
One should hope not.  Given the nature of the work
--esoteric, out-of-mainstream, parochial, ... knots(!)--,
the fear would be that it be deemed unworthy of any
restoration/publication effort, and ... lost from posterity!
It is good, thus, to see at last this effort to retain it
and make it widely available (to those scattered few
who have keen interest).  The IGKT held an Annual
Meeting at Newport-News / Maritime Museum and
so brought a group of "esoteric...."-minded knotty
people into close proximity with it --some of whom
indulged that opportunity.


--dl*
====

This is exactly my point. I don't claim Gutenberg has monopoloy on public domain scribblings. But they do have the infrastructure to handle the task. And people come there to find something interesting to work on. And when it is done, as well as meanwhile, it is truly open for the public to take part of.

Now if the museum require you to sign up (making yet another account, adding to all other forgotten ones) and even pay to become a member, to a physical venue on the other side of the globe no less, it is not exactly public in my opinion. Hunting down unpaid workforce is something that is likely to be a job of the uphill kind. I know for a fact that I won't join.

I don't know if the knots in the manuscript are of interest to me until I have seen it. But I feel it is important to maintain and care for old knowledge. Whether or not knots are primary interest of those who secure the text, releasing an organisation such as Gutenberg on it, can only be of good. Should a knot pundit, or any museum, association or guild, have a butchers during and after, all the better. The more eyes, the better.

So. Is the museums action done for the glory of the manuscripts or for their own? (sentence borrowed and modified from Indiana Jones and the last crusade).

Sweeney

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 03:01:27 PM »
According to Des Pawson the project to type the manuscript is being managed by the museum utilising IGKT resources but once completed the result will be freely available to anyone (not just IGKT or museum members).

Barry

Wed

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 03:38:48 PM »
Promising

Fairlead

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 08:41:14 PM »
I was one of those people at the meeting in Newport News to view this work, having been pointed in the right direction by Des Pawson.  I was so taken by it that I stayed on an extra two days to make notes and browse through all 8 volumes - the museum were also kind enough to copy some pages for me.  I came home and with the assistance of my daughter started to look into the Bushby genealogy and spent some time at Kew and in London researching the family.  HNGB's children (3) had no heirs so the family stopped with his daughter Dorothy who died in May 1983 in Weymouth - having passed the manuscripts on to the Mariners Museum in Newport News.
I then published (not for distribution or gain) A paper - A Review of The Unpublished Manuscripts "NOTES ON KNOTS' by Henry North Grant Bushby (1863 - 1926) - extracts of which I hope will be published with the e-copy of the book.
Transcription - I have transcribed 19 pages already with another 10 allocated ready for next week.  Des Pawson is co-ordinating the volunteers (there are 24 at present)and allocating the pages.  All you have to do is log on to http://librarygallery.marinersmuseum.org/needtranscription and register (free) quoting that you are a member of the IGKT and you will be given a login name and password.  Then contact Des who will allocate you a block of pages. 
Yes (as some have said) it is not easy, but once you get used to the writing and decipher some of the hieroglyphics it is very rewarding.
DONT sit back and expect something for nothing!

Gordon
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 11:35:22 PM by Fairlead »

Fairlead

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Re: Bushby Manuscript
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 04:46:56 PM »
Des has just sent an e-mail to all those who have volunteered to help transcribe the Bushby Notes on Knots, explaining how to go about it and giving all the relevant URLs.  If you wish to help please contact him

Gordon