Author Topic: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.  (Read 8924 times)

xarax

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The Overhand knot Tackled hitch.
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2015, 10:00:46 AM »
   The simplest, conceptually, Tackled hitch ( tight hitch / binder ) is the one based on the simplest end-of-line loop : the Overhand loop. The good thing with the double-line overhand knot which makes the nub of this loop, is that, when the eye of the overhand loop is loaded, it does not "walk" towards it by itself - while, at the same time, it can be transported easily closer or further from it by us, if/when we want to re-adjust the size of the eye. The bad thing is that it "closes" tightly around itself and it becomes difficult to untie - but, for the purpose we want it, this is actually an advantage : in the case of the Tackled hitch based on it, we want it to be as tight as possible, and remain so during and after the pulling of the ends of the hitch which penetrate it, in order to be able to grip, nip and immobilize the ends which penetrate it as securely as possible.
   There are different ways one can see a rope-made mechanism, and when it is simple, i.e., when it is as simple as a knot, there are even more ! :) Many knots are "similar" to many others, so there are many ways we can try to "reduce" our descriptions of their forms or explain how they work, starting from yet simpler, more "elementary" rope tangles.
   How I "see" this Tackled hitch : As an overhand loop, where the ends :
  1. first, they are linked with the eye of the loop ( = they go through it, passing from its one side to its other ),
  2. and, then, they re-enter into the nub from the same side they exit from it in the first place, and exit from it from the opposite side.
   In place of the Overhand loop, we may have any other end of line loop - only that it should be TIB, if we want our Tackled hitch to be TIB as well. For the time being, I think that the most appropriate loop for this is the simplified/slimmed Butterfly loop I had presented in previous posts.
   As I had said many times, there are not only many ways to describe and explain a knot, but also to tie it ! To tie this Tackled hitch in-the-bight, I suggest one should better tie it first in-the-ends ( that is, on a short line, where he can have easy access to both ends ), and then make some "reverse engineering" to see how he could had tied it in-the-bight. The trick is to perform a simple experiment : On a loose hitch, removed from the hitched object, we can pull the ends all the way, so the two "secondary" loops get through the nub, from its one way to the other. After we do that, we will see that our knot has been transformed to something else - which I will not tell, because I do not want to spoil the joy of the knot tyer who will perform this transformation ! I only say that it is a well known TIB double loop, which can be tied-in-the bight also in many ways...( Stop ! I have almost spilled the beans already ! :) ). From this stage, the interested reader would see how to reverse the whole procedure, and go back to the Overhand knot Tackled hitch he had started.
   We would had followed the same method for tying any Tackled hitch, based on any end-of-line loop, but : 1 : there may be easier and quicker ways to tie each of them, or 2 : by this method we may lose the control of the many parallel segments and twist some around others, and so end with a knot with kinks, which is not a good thing regarding its strength, as ruby noticed.
   Even for the Butterfly Tackled hitch, which, for the moment, I find as the slimmest and more easily untiable of all I had tied and tried, I am not sure which is the easiest and quickest tying method... Also, I am a knot-tyer, I am not a knot-user : for the "average" knot-user, perhaps a bulkier, yet "simpler", conceptually, Tackled hitch, like the Overhand knot Tackled hitch shown in this post, may be more attractive and "useful".
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 01:13:12 AM by xarax »
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2015, 01:09:15 PM »
   I had pre-tensioned this Butterfly Tackled hitch by jumping on the pole, with my full body weight, while it was hanged by each one of the two ends, alternately - so the nub was "closed" around itself very tightly. Yet I was able to release the "lock" and untie the knot  rather easily, by pushing the rim of the first ("over") nipping loop of the nub over the top of the second, ("under") one, as shown in the last attached picture. It is interesting that, in this stage, the hitch is still holding ! It is only after we do the same thing to the rim of the second ( "under ) nipping loop, that the "lock" is finally released. This means that this nub works as a very secure "lock", which, even if its first line of defence is broken through, its second will hold.
   Needles to say, the grip of this hitch is phenomenal : one has to drive the ends back through the opposing bights of the main and the secondary loops ( i.e., to go from a 2: 1 to a 3 :1 mechanical advantage for each pair ) to tie a tighter hitch - but this is another story.
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xarax

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Tackled Bull Clove hitch.
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2015, 05:06:19 PM »
  The simplest way we can transform a tight hitch into its "Tackled" version, is to twist the one half of each wrap 360 degrees relatively to the other ( so, duplicate the number of the wraps of the non-Tackled, parent hitch ). ( See this operation applied on the Tackled Simplest hitch, shown at the first posts of this thread ). This can be done instantly, it does not change the tying method of the parent hitch, and has unexpectedly satisfactory results, regarding the tightness of the wraps.
   As I had tried to explain, the enhancement of the gripping power of the hitch ( per wrap ) which w achieve this way, is due to the alignment of the segments which go to, and leave from, the centre of the tackle : the common tip of the two interlinked Us - which alignment improves the angle between the pulling and the pulled segments, on which the efficiency of the mechanical advantage is depending. Now we can pre-tension each wrap of the hitch more, simply because we can exploit more what the mechanical advantage offers to us. The casual knot tyer may wonder why those two wraps, which have been born out of this tricky twisting of each initial one, do not revolve, so that their crossing points approach and finally "kiss" each other - since, geometrically, this can be done without any change of the lengths of the wrapped rope segments. The answer is simple : as it happens to tied knots which are not untied / unknotted, for exactly the same reason the screws are not unscrewed ! :) : Friction. To become able to revolve, while they are already starting to become tensioned, each wrap should overcome the friction forces coming from its contact with the surface of the hitched object, and those friction forces are always stronger than the forces which drag its crossing point towards the crossing point of its twin wrap. At first I had not realized that, and that is why I had not tried this configuration, although I had thought about it when I was tying the TackleClamp hitch. However, it seems that, even if we have some experience of "similar" rope mechanisms, we can not "think" about knots beyond a certain point, where things become too complex, and we have to actually tie and try them, and see what happens.
   At the attached pictures, one can see the Tackled Bull Clove hitch. An already very good, very tight hitch, which becomes even better, because the tension / gripping power of each wrap is improved relatively to what it was in the parent hitch. I am not sure I would choose this four-wrap hitch and not a TackleClamp hitch, for example, or even the less tight, but also TIB (  and tiable almost instantly ) Locked Double Cow hitch - but I show some pictures of it, so the reader gets the "feeling" of how Tackled hitches themselves work, despite how we would had thought they would !

   At the first two pictures one can see the stage where the wraps of the hitch start to become tensioned. We should leave ample space between the crossing points of the tackled wraps and the central nub, so the knot does not "closes" prematurely. This depends on the characteristics of the hitched object and of the rope, so there is no general rule we can follow to achieve this in each and every case. As a rule of thumb, I think that if the whole mechanism starts to become tensioned when the wraps cover the 3/4 ths of the circumference of the pole, the spacing would be enough - but with other objects, of different shapes, one should apply the best rule of all : try and error. :)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 05:13:06 PM by xarax »
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xarax

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Tackled Bull Clove hitch
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2015, 05:09:38 PM »
   Two more pictures of the Tackled Bull Clove hitch - just to keep my blah-blah to show ratio small... :)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 05:13:37 PM by xarax »
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knotsaver

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Re: Tackled Bull Clove hitch
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2015, 07:22:30 PM »
    just to keep my blah-blah to show ratio small... :)

Thank you, Xarax, for all your "blah-blah"! ;)
I'm trying to use the ABoK #1100 double loop, locking the tails into the two (tight) eyes, but it's not TIB...

xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2015, 07:59:15 PM »
   ABoK#1100 is a re-tucked Butterfly loop ( ABoK#1053 ), so it is TIB. I believe I had tied all the Butterfly-knot-related Tackled hitches, and I had not found anything better than the two I ve presented in this thread - but I may have missed something. With all those parallel segments, it is easy to make a mistake, and lose an interesting possibility. Keep tying and trying ! :) - and watch your back ! Tie, for example the Tackled Bull Pretzel hitch (1)(2)( which I have in front of me, but I have to wait the sun to take some decent photos of it...). It is very tight Tackled hitch, too. (3)

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5250.msg34395#msg34395
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5250.msg34410#msg34410
3. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5255
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2015, 04:13:44 PM »
   Let us return to the very first post, and have a look at the Simplest Tackled hitch shown there. Its Standing End is "locked" by the humble underhand knot, where this most simple, indeed, hitch is based - while, at a distance of only a few rope diameters, we have the centre of the tackle, the common tip of the two opposed interlinked Us. That does not seem right - a tight-hitch-knot-tyer who uses overhand and fig.8 knots, when he can use simpler tangles, is not worth his salt ! :)  Why not utilize those opposing Us, and lock the Tail End there ( and not within the overhand knot ), by implementing the opposing bights locking mechanism ? ( which is much simpler, safer and more easily and instantaneously un-tiable than all the other "locks" we have ).  And, as a bonus, we get one more zig-zag vertex, which means that we increase the mechanical advantage of the hitch.
   The loose form of that hitch, just before we start pulling the end against the pole, is shown at the attached pictures. For the moment, I call it Double Simplest Tackled hitch, or Doubly / Twice tackled Simplest hitch - and I have only to say that it is the tighter two-wrap tight hitch / binder I had ever tied ! Perhaps I should had anticipated its gripping power, since the mechanical advantage is increased relatively to its parent hitch, but, in any case, the feeling of a two-wrap hitch which can not even REVOLVE around a sleek pole, was really surprizing to me.
   Reminder : the knot should be already "closed", albeit not tightly, around itself and the pole at this stage - if it is still very loose, the two parts of the tackle will run the danger to slide on the surface of the pole all the way, and "kiss" each other before the hitch becomes very tight. On the other hand, and depending on how slippery are the rope and the pole, if one starts from this position, the hitch may "lock" prematurely before the two parts approach each other as much as we want ( we want a compact, tight knot where the pulling and pulled segments will be almost parallel, for reasons explained in previous posts ).   
   
   More pictures, of the tight hitch, shortly.
   Note : As one may see, I had placed the parent overhand knot differently, because now the line which penetrates it makes a U-turn inside it. We have to secure an overhand knot at the tip of a bight, and, to do this in the most efficient and secure way, we should better arrange its segments so that its tail goes "under" the first curve of its Standing Part.
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xarax

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Double Simplest Tackled hitch
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2015, 06:35:30 PM »
   Here is how the knot ( shown in its loose, initial tightening phase in the previous post ) becomes after the pre-tensioning.
   The two parallel umbilical cords between the two parts of the tackle are longer than required - they could well had half the length they have, and be even more straight and parallel. However, one can never be sure, in advance, where/when exactly the mechanism will "lock" : it depends on the characteristics of the rope and the pole, how loose or tight is the knot in the initial stage ( before the start of the pre-tensioning ), how hardly it will be pre-tensioned, if its Standing End remains perpendicular to the surface of the pole during all stages of the pre-tensioning... One has to tie the knot on the same rope and pole, and starting from the same initial set up, two-three times, to get an idea about how long will those segments be when the knot will be locked and become maximally pre-tensioned. 
   The third picture is the knot as it looks right after it has been removed from the pole through its one end, without been loosened. We see that it is a very small and simple knot, which consumes less material than other less tight and secure hitches,  yet what it can accomplish, as a two, only, wraps tight hitch / binder, is quite remarkable IMO. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 10:27:01 AM by xarax »
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xarax

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Double Simplest Tackled hitch
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2015, 11:12:36 PM »
   There are four ways to tie an ABoK#1821-like overhand knot inside the tip of the U. I have seen that, under heavy loading,  the three of them are OK : in the fourth, the tail of the overhand knot does not remain as well encircled within its own rim and the rim of the U, so I guess that it may turn out to be secure than the other three. See, at the first two attached pictures, two of those three solutions, and, at the last two pictures, the solution which seems better to me. The overhand knot should be attached securely, yet it should not "close" around itself, in order to allow the unhindered passage of the line through it, when we pull it to pre-tension the hitch. ( I have not tried some other, more complex solutions (1) ).

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4307
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 11:16:20 PM by xarax »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: The Overhand knot Tackled hitch.
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2015, 05:46:07 PM »
   The simplest, conceptually, Tackled hitch ( tight hitch / binder )
I've been thinking of such things as "binder hitches" ?!
(And I guess that "friction"/"gripping" almost comes along
for the ride, so to speak, for if it's much of a hitch and binds,
it will likely give frictional resistance against loading along
or near the axis of the hitched object.)
Quote
is the one based on the simplest end-of-line loop : the Overhand loop.
Might it be best to orient the S.Part through the overhand
so that it splits the "spine" --and gets the hitch structure that
you've elsewhere propagated as such a simple, good noose?

I found in the wild a case where weights for a net (tied-on
bricks or stones) apparently involved cutting and re-tying the
line to the netting, but where that very structure could have
been tied in the bight --and this one suggests such use, too.

With all such knots and esp. the more opposed-bights locking
ones, beware the specious performance on hard-slick objects,
sooooo unlike what will happen if trying to bind rope onto rope!


--dl*
====

xarax

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Re: The Overhand knot Tackled hitch.
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2015, 07:11:44 PM »
   Might it be best to orient the S.Part through the overhand so that it splits the "spine" ...

   Provided the pair of the lines re-enter into the nub from the correct side ( in order to retain the TIB-ness ), they can go through any one of the three possible openings of the overhand pretzel - and if they follow the path you describe they are probably gripped / nipped more tightly, indeed. I had decided to show a nub where they follow the "simplest", more easy to follow visually path, just because I wanted to emphasize the topology more than the geometry, and because the pictures of this solution can be deciphered more easily.

...unlike what will happen if trying to bind rope onto rope

   I had not even thought of using such tangles on rope-to-rope attachments ! ! Rope is not only more curved ( cross-sectional-ly ) and less slippery than a sleek/slick pole, but it is also compressible - and that means we should better chose different, more efficient solutions when we want to bind rope onto rope.
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xarax

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Re: "Tackled" hitches - a new class of tight hitches.
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2015, 12:49:09 AM »
   "Double Simplest Tackled hitch" ? ? Come on ! :) :)
   I made two changes :
   First, I tied the TIB version, using, instead of the overhand knot, a slipped overhand knot. It was not as easy at it sounds, because I had to change the over/under relation of the tackled wraps, too, and it took me some time to realize that I had to do this...
   Second, I searched for a decent, short name, and I came with this : " Yoke hitch ". I believe it conveys the image of the two tackled parts coming together - and, as a four letters word, it is OK ! :) Any other suggestion would be welcomed.
   For the pictures, I have to wait for the sun - again... I had pre-tensioned this version using the pole itself as a level, with my whole body weight at the long end. The slipped overhand knots held perfectly - but the fact that they are slipped, does not mean they can be untied ! :) This hitch is meant to be a permanent hitch - after the pictures, I will simply cut the tails off ! 
    What is the most interesting in the hard pre-tensioning of this hitch, is the sound the tensioned rope makes, when you hit it with something : it sounds like wood ! :) 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 12:53:31 AM by xarax »
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