Author Topic: Skinny Bend??  (Read 3139 times)

detroittyer

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Skinny Bend??
« on: January 31, 2014, 12:23:54 AM »
Hi, I'm new to knot tying so forgive my general lack of knowledge. I've been tying for about a year from information found on websites.  I recently was experimenting with knots formed from multiple twists.  Several knots based on this tying strategy seem possible with the simplest of these shown below.  (I've also included an expanded form of the knot to show the geometry better.)

This knot seems really easy to tie (it's best quality), moderately easy to undo (others may disagree), and reasonably secure (for paracord at least).  It also strikes me as fairly streamline compared to other bends. 

I?m guessing it is known based on its simplicity, but I can't identify it.  The bottom of the knot has a nice pattern that should help.

Can someone please help me identify this knot so I can learn more about its strengths and weaknesses or if new, to continue to tests it?  Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 03:57:06 AM by detroittyer »

xarax

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Re: Skinny Bend??
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 01:03:48 AM »
   By all means, test it, please ! There are no tests whatsoever for any bend, old or new - and I am exaggerating infinitesimally only here !   :)
   It can be dressed in two distinct forms, the "Short" and the "Long" - two forms that can well be considered as two different knots, because the difference in the geometry, for such a simple shape, is huge, and the locking mechanism of the Tail ends is quite different. Which slips less, and/or is stronger ? Who knows ? Most probably no-one, because nobody has tested them, ever !
   Variations of the Double Harness bend, one of the simplest bends to tie, as you have noticed, but also in its form, have been presented in this Forum a number of times.
   See, for example, the recently met Valentine s bend - a retucked Double Harness bend. Or the collared Double Harness bend, where the Working end of the one link collars the Standing end of the other.
  Personally, I love the Double Harness bend - although, in contrast to the equally simple to tie, re. the number of required tucks ( as it also requires one, and one only tuck...) Zeppelin bend, it is veeery difficult to untie after heavy loading. l like it so much that I had even attempted to use it in place of the common bowline ! (1)

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3984.0
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 01:06:40 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Valentine s bend
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 01:24:04 AM »
   The Valentine s bend - a retucked Double Harness bend.
This is not a knot.

detroittyer

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Re: Skinny Bend??
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 03:37:22 AM »
So it's a double harness bend! I too quickly ruled that out because the way i tied it the working ends emerge on the same side and the examples I saw all had them emerging in opposite directions. Thank you very much for the information, especially regarding the short and long variations. I wondered why the knot looked different depending on how I tightened it.

I will test it when I get a chance. Are there any standards for testing I should be using or are comparative tests preferred?  I'm also going to test the attached knot which I tied using the same process but with four twists instead of two.

I respectfully wish to question a couple points you made. Regarding the knot being difficult to untie, I find that to be true of the variation where the working ends are pointing in different directions but not true where they are parallel and can be used to pull up while pushing down on to loosen the knot.

Also, I too am a fan of the zeppelin bend but find the double harness easier to tie using the twisting method shown. Just my opinion.

Thanks again for the great info. I'll keep you posted on any tests I run.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 03:47:33 AM by detroittyer »

xarax

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Re: Skinny Bend??
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 05:45:47 AM »
   Are there any standards for testing I should be using or are comparative tests preferred ?
 
   It is like you find a man suffering from dehydration in the middle the desert, and you ask him if he prefers tap or carbonated water... ANY test is better than NO test. Even simple, tug-of-war kind of testing two different bends tied on the same line or loop to see which one slips or breaks more times than the other, is most welcomed. To just have an idea about tests on knots by other people before you start your own, have a quick look at (1).
  If you want to test different bends against a "standard" bend / benchmark, you may choose the ( most symmetric forms of the ) rethreaded overhand or fig. knots, the Fisherman s knot, or the Zeppelin bend.
 
Regarding the knot being difficult to untie, I find that to be true of the variation where the working ends are pointing in different directions but not true where they are parallel and can be used to pull up while pushing down on to loosen the knot.

  I know only this : to quantify and test how easy is to untie a knot, is the most difficult thing one can even think he can do ! :) I have no idea about which of the two forms of the knot, or which of the two knots, is really easier to untie after heavy steady or alternating loading, on various materials, et... Ashley says that the DH bend "with parallel ends" ( ? ? ? - the tails are parallel in both bends ! ) "appears to be preferable", but, although he says this right after mentioning that the DH bend and the SH bend are "exceedingly hard to untie", he is (once more... ) not clear on what he really means. Personally, I prefer the "balanced", more symmetric form, and I would be ready to turn a blind eye in a small, insignificant difference between the two. The Double Harness bend with tails pointing to opposite directions is a most beautiful thing - the "other one" looks like...well, certainly it looks like all the "similar" bends "with parallel ends"... In general, to my eyes, in bends the best thing is Tail ends parallel to the Standing ends and the axis of the knot. The next best thing is Tails symmetrically placed in relation to the axis of the knot. At the very last place, is tails leaving the knot from the same side, and towards the same direction.
  ( I am the last person in the World to have a say about tests of knots - my speciality is blah-blahing...but there are other members of this Forum who can enlighten you with their knowledge and experience on this matter.)
 
 1. http://www.paci.com.au/downloads_public/knots/14_Report_hitches_PBavaresco.pdf
This is not a knot.