Author Topic: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.  (Read 12288 times)

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« on: November 02, 2013, 12:00:36 PM »
  At the one end of a Cow hitch form a bight and pass it under the other end, and then also under both turns, as shown in the attached pictures.
  This "Tight hitch" = self-locking binder will remain tightly tied around the object(s), even after / while the standing end is not loaded any more. Any tension inserted into the knot, within the wraps, during successive/repeated pulls, can thus be accumulated by this ratcheting mechanism, and can remain 'locked" there for ever  :) .
   ( I have called this knot "Locked Cow hitch - it "may be considered as an improvement of the ABoK#1683 - where the one end passes over the other before it passes under both turns -, and somehow similar, in working, with the "Andalusian hitch" (1), or the "Tom Foul s hitch" (2)).
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4069.0
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3197
This is not a knot.

Festy

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »
  At the one end of a Cow hitch form a bight and pass it under the other end, and then also under both turns, as shown in the attached pictures.
  This "Tight hitch" = self-locking binder will remain tightly tied around the object(s), even after / while the standing end is not loaded any more. Any tension inserted into the knot, within the wraps, during successive/repeated pulls, can thus be accumulated by this ratcheting mechanism, and can remain 'locked" there for ever  :) .
   ( I have called this knot "Locked Cow hitch - it "may be considered as an improvement of the ABoK#1683 - where the one end passes over the other before it passes under both turns -, and somehow similar, in working, with the "Andalusian hitch" (1), or the "Tom Foul s hitch" (2)).
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4069.0
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3197

nice hitch knot X, nice touch using the glass too  ;)

F

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 03:01:02 PM »
   Thank you, Festy.
   ( There was much talk about cows recently in the Forum, so I thought I should show mine, too... :) )
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »
...having a clear object is surely a great way to illustrate a knot.
   
   Another way is to place it in front of a mirror.  :) 
   Have a look, at the attached pictures, of another ( similar, in some sense ) Tight hitch = self-locking binder, much less easy to tie and to untie, but much more easy to tighten - and to tighten in the extreme, as it utilizes even more efficiently the mechanical advantage offered by the zigzag path of the line on the surface of the pole. 
   { I guess that, placed in front of a mirror, a "half-clever" cow / knot ( as some farmers / knot tyers had characterized this hitch ) can only become brighter. That might explain why farmers / knot tyers look themselves in the mirror so often : they imagine / hope that what is true for their cows / knots, would be true for themselves as well... :) }
   If we have to show a more complex knot, we can simply use more mirrors. Three mirrors, perpendicular to each other, would suffice to show all the details of a 3D object.
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 08:46:56 PM »
   ( There was much talk about cows recently in the Forum, so I thought I should show mine, too... :) )

Seems that the Divinity of Bovinity is getting a workout lately!  ;)  :P  Might even be gaining in girth. Better check in those mirrors!

Releases very well even after a very heavy load. I just tried it with truck versus tree using 8mm accessory rope, not to destruction, and it untied easily enough.
Doesn't seem to matter where the tail lays either, as shown or between the bight leg and the action node.

I'm sure it is dependent on media versus diameter of the hitched-to object.

Could very well be another answer to the retrievable anchor challenge, using an accessory cord knotted to it for pull down.

SS

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 09:19:55 PM »
I'm sure it is dependent on media versus diameter of the hitched-to object.
   
   Perhaps - but I think that, in this tight hitch / binder, the difference in locking efficiency, if any, would be less than in the simple-hitch-a-le-Gleipnir - where we really need a certain minimal curvature in the diameter of the hitched object ( in comparison to the diameter of the rope ), in order to have the "inversed" nipping loop firmly pushed against the surface... 
  So, we may conclude that this is just another case we need the so-absent tests:)

P.S. :
Oatmeal Cookie Chunk, rather than Bovinity Divinity ? See :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/ben-jerrys-discontinued-f_n_4059195.html
 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 09:54:06 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 09:48:58 PM »
in order to have the "inversed" nipping loop firmly pushed against the surface... 

This "inverse" nipping loop is stretching it a bit, to me. Although it resembles a nipping loop in the analysis, it doesn't quite measure up to that function, per se. ;-)

Quote
So, we may conclude that this is just another case we need the so-absent tests:)
As per normal... Just the cockamamie tests a few of us cobble together.

Quote
P.S. :
Oatmeal Cookie Chunk, rather than Bovinity Divinity ?
Word order can make a difference!

SS

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 10:20:01 PM »
]This "inverse" nipping loop is stretching it a bit, to me. Although it resembles a nipping loop in the analysis, it doesn't quite measure up to that function, per se. ;-)
   
   It is a "closed" loop, no question about it, I suppose...Both its ends are loaded, so it is not a half hitch, which, strictly speaking, is a terminal knot. It nips = constricts anything that happens to pass through it - as anyone can ascertain, by placing a finger ( for example... ) into it. And it is due to its nipping action, that the embraced pair of tails remain secured = locked within it. So, why it is not a nipping loop ? How else would you characterize it ? I think that the "keyhole" of the locking mechanism of the Andalusian hitch can also be considered as a nipping loop, albeit a less well formed one.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:35:04 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 10:46:05 PM »
Hi Xarax.

Perhaps I am wrong. But, I am speaking about the original hitch of this thread. (1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4673.msg30208#msg30208 "Snug Hitch"
As the attached cropped picture shows, to me, this is not a nipping loop.

SS

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 10:54:04 PM »
   Oh, I am sorry, SS369, I was speaking about the nipping loop at the simple hitch a la Gleipnir...
   At the Locked Cow hitch I, too, do not see any nipping loop - the continuation of the slipped tail around the one leg of the cow s U should better be considered as a 270 degrees collar.
This is not a knot.

xarax

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2781
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 10:45:12 AM »
 
It works better where the object is convex and NOT enormous relative to the rope.

   If the surface of the object near the knob of the hitch is almost flat, the slipped tail will not be squeezed adequately - so we will probably have to secure it even further, by passing it under the riding turns a second time, double-slip it, or by securing it further with a half hitch.

where the binder must be mid-air capable
   
   Obviously this knot dos not work as a mid-air binder ! The slipped tail is secured = locked under the turns, squeezed in between them and the surface of the object. Without the active participation of the surface, we will need to entangle the tail to the standing part - If we will insist to retain the TIB character of the knot, which makes it suitable as a hitch " to stakes and posts, piles and bollards " ( ABoK, Ch. 22) . Such an entanglement will make it much more complex, relatively what it is as it is, and much less attractive.
  There is also another factor one must take into account : in order to be able to use the mechanical advantage offered by such a hitch, the rope itself should be able to slide on the surface of the hitched or bound object(s). If the surface of the rope and/or the object(s) is very rough, or if the turns ride on sharp corners along their path, we would not be able to tighten the knot as much as we would had wished.
 
P.S.
   I have called the hitch shown in this thread "Locked Cow hitch' - for obvious reasons. The first sentence of the title of the thread : A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured, should only be read as a relative clause. Ashley makes the useful distinction between the "Snug hitches", " in which the ends [tails] are secured under the turns ", and the "Loose hitches", in which the ends, after passing around another object, are made fast to their own standing parts ". I have called "Tight hitches" those ( few, only ) "Snug hitches" in which both ends are secured - the tail and the standing end. Such hitches can often serve as binders, too. To secure = lock both ends, we can pass each of them through loops around the object ( = riding turns ), or the through loops on the standing part ( = nipping loops ), or through the eye formed by opposing bights - as it happens in the case of the shown Locked Cow hitch - or, for that matter, in the case of the TackleClamp hitch shown at a previous post.   
 
 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 12:10:24 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1900
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 11:20:36 PM »
Xarax, I think we agree on the characteristics of the Locked Cow Hitch. Thank you for the conversation.

By the way, whoever deleted my last post, I would appreciate a notification. Otherwise, I will cease wasting my time on this forum.

Here is what I said that got deleted: Xarax, I would like to see a pic of the Gleipnir X with a clear object.

Notice that Xarax posted a pic of the Gleipnir X above. So, what I said is within the flow of conversation. I think it's disrespectful and completely unnecessary to delete a person's post like that. Now, I'm starting to wonder what else on this site is deleted. If you want a website with only your content, then don't operate a forum.

If you are going to publicly call out a moderator like you just did, then please have the decency to quote yourself accurately.

"Off topic... I would like to see a pic of the Gleipnir X binder with a clear object." <  That is exactly what you wrote.

Better yet, try using the private message or report function and keep the thread clean and on topic.

knot4u

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1076
Re: A "Snug hitch" where both ends are secured = a binder.
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 07:50:41 PM »
Xarax, I think we agree on the characteristics of the Locked Cow Hitch. Thank you for the conversation.

By the way, whoever deleted my last post, I would appreciate a notification. Otherwise, I will cease wasting my time on this forum.

Here is what I said that got deleted: Xarax, I would like to see a pic of the Gleipnir X with a clear object.

Notice that Xarax posted a pic of the Gleipnir X above. So, what I said is within the flow of conversation. I think it's disrespectful and completely unnecessary to delete a person's post like that. Now, I'm starting to wonder what else on this site is deleted. If you want a website with only your content, then don't operate a forum.

If you are going to publicly call out a moderator like you just did, then please have the decency to quote yourself accurately.

"Off topic... I would like to see a pic of the Gleipnir X binder with a clear object." <  That is exactly what you wrote.

Better yet, try using the private message or report function and keep the thread clean and on topic.

Not a problem, I will contribute significantly less to this forum because I don't think there was a need to delete, which is pretty drastic.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 07:52:42 PM by knot4u »