Author Topic: Knot Booklet  (Read 6091 times)

75RR

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Knot Booklet
« on: October 12, 2013, 04:10:21 AM »
The PDF Booklet on Knots is finally finished.

This Knot Booklet is a genuine eBook; both content and index have internal links.
It contains clear drawings of some 40+ knots.
It is distributed under the Creative Common Licence, so share it with the following conditions:
Attribution - Noncommercial - No Derivative Works.

It would be helpful if those of you who managed to download and read the Booklet would post/comment on any errors/corrections that you may have come across.

This is the (short) link:

http://goo.gl/c9dGuU

It should download automatically when you clink click on the link.


It is not a requirement to post a comment if one downloads the booklet, though it should be. ;)





« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 10:52:37 AM by 75RR »

zoranz

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 10:56:41 AM »
Thx 75RR,

glad to see your drawings again. I didn't have time to inspect in details the booklet, but knowing your previous posts - believe it would be OK.

Regards, ZZ

SS369

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 01:15:53 PM »
Nice clean drawings 75RR.
Glad you posted it.
Thank you for your hard work.

SS

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 01:13:30 PM »

Thanks to Zoranz and SS369 for posting.

It is hard to believe that only two people have downloaded this ebook at a site dedicated to knots and knotting matters. (Pun)
There have been 92 views at this time, glitch?

KnotMe

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 04:49:45 PM »
It is hard to believe that only two people have downloaded this ebook at a site dedicated to knots and knotting matters.
Oh, I'm sure more than 2 have downloaded.  I did (because I'm a pack rat) but not being a practical knotter for the the most part, I have nothing useful to say about your knot selection.

The illustrations are nice and clear, though sometimes crammed together into a box where more whitespace might be beneficial (it's an e-book, use all the space you want!).  The part I'm most interested in is your knot rendering software.   :D

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 05:44:42 PM »

The illustrations are nice and clear, though sometimes crammed together into a box where more whitespace might be beneficial (it's an e-book, use all the space you want!).  The part I'm most interested in is your knot rendering software.   :D

Tis an ebook, though some might want to print it.
No knot rendering software, sorry; Adobe Illustrator (graphic design)

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2013, 12:36:07 PM »
Minor corrections implemented:
Page 6   added the letter "r" to: manufacturer
Page 15 added missing bracket to: (ABoK # 1800)
Page 24 added missing "be" to: allow the rope to be cut
Page 27 added "as does the Figure Eight Loop, (see Fig. 24a and 24b)" to:
              the Flemish Bend description.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:37:33 PM by 75RR »

McKnottee

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2013, 01:48:35 PM »
Nice work, thanks for that. Particularly clear drawings.  8)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2013, 09:42:52 PM »

Thanks to Zoranz and SS369 for posting.

It is hard to believe that only two people have downloaded this ebook at a site dedicated to knots and knotting matters. (Pun)
There have been 92 views at this time, glitch?

Make that three (at least) --had a bit of a hassle/puzzle,
but the library's FIOS Windoze system prevailed, at last.

I could spend the week commenting, as much here is of
the traditional knotting literature's shortcomings (IMO).

Let me do some quick-scan remarks.

1) The Gleipnir's pre-setting image is wrong --ends enter
the turNip from the "anti-bowline" (and re this knot, wrong)
side.  The set one is okay.

A caveat re the structure should be given : that it requires
good slippage of material around the bound object(s) in
order to deliver nipping force to the turNip --a problem
otherwise (which I find too often realized)!

2) The parrroting of the need to "cut" the constrictor rubs
me wrong --not really incorrect, but needlessly given for this
knot as though other knots aren't also vulnerable --and
esp. annoying in not acknowledging, at least, the way
to try to loosen it : pulling on a tail at an angle so as
to prise out some of the binding/other end's material,
and working things from there.

3) So, claiming that the strangle is easier to untie IMO goes
wrong; it might be harder (what's the potentially effective
method to loosen?  --to try to force an overwrap off of an
end of the knot?

4) You mention but unfortunately do not SHOW the "extra
turns" that can be added to the strangle --such a knot
makes a great whipping!

[... time's up here! ]-:

--dl*
====

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 09:59:51 PM »
[Further to my comments above, new --though shortened--
 time allotment.]

5)  Stopper knots : for a good one qua hand-over-hand
climbing rope, mid-line stopper --one that shouldn't jam--,
consider #521 (IIRC --which amounts to a differently
oriented "fig.9 (near stevedore)" knot (symmetric).

6) Asher's seizing bend is a not-the-best implementation
of a reasonable idea; it's less than all so secure (when slack).
To redress this shortcoming, begin as you show for the
whipping, and where the working end comes back up to
the SPart, wrap it around the SPart and one side of the
hitched-to bight --ONE side only--, once or twice; then
wrap it around the bight, tightly set as you go, running
*within* the hitching line's own bight/loop; finish so
that the final pass lies on the SPart's side (upper or lower
as the case might be) --this, so that the tail can be
used qua pry bar to pull back out some material of
the SPart through those initially made "once or twice"
wraps that otherwise secure it (when slack).  THIS
is a nice solution!  No matter the force, it should be
possible to haul out some looseness to back out the
tail, and untie.

7) Bob Thrun might himself reply to say that, no, the 'biner
in the Bachmann hitch is to help keep the knot working
and not overtightening; but NOT to aid in sliding it any more
directly --not a handle, i.e..

8) No stopper should be needed on the ProhGrip/Blake's,
but I sure want one on the last of these!

--dl*
====

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 10:37:58 PM »

I could spend the week commenting, as much here is of
the traditional knotting literature's shortcomings (IMO).

1) Can do.

2) Can rephrase.

3) Can rephrase.

4) Will leave as is.

5) No room for another knot without pushing everything on to the next page. Linking nightmare!

6) Will need to see scanned pencil drawing to clarify your point/see how hard change is.

7) The way you tell it it would seem that each wrap has a 3/4 grip with the Karabiner in place.
    6 wraps = 4 1/2 why not just go with 4 wraps?

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 02:06:10 AM »

7) Bob Thrun might himself reply to say that, no, the 'biner
in the Bachmann hitch is to help keep the knot working
and not overtightening; but NOT to aid in sliding it any more
directly --not a handle, i.e..

7) The way you tell it it would seem that each wrap has a 3/4 grip with the Karabiner in place.
    6 wraps = 4 1/2 why not just go with 4 wraps?

Have been thinking about the Bachmann; if the Karabiner subtracts a little less than a 1/4 friction, that is, leaving not 4.5 but 5, then the use of a Bachmann would allow more flexibility in the use of a Prusik sling.
6 wraps                       =                     6x friction
6 wraps + Karabiner     =                     5x friction
4 wraps                       =                     4x friction
4 wraps + Karabiner     =                     3x friction

Is this what you were pointing out?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 03:08:53 AM by 75RR »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 05:48:45 AM »

7) Bob Thrun might himself reply to say that, no, the 'biner
in the Bachmann hitch is to help keep the knot working
and not overtightening; but NOT to aid in sliding it any more
directly --not a handle, i.e..

7) The way you tell it it would seem that each wrap has a 3/4 grip with the Karabiner in place.
    6 wraps = 4 1/2 why not just go with 4 wraps?

Have been thinking about the Bachmann; if the Karabiner subtracts a little less than a 1/4 friction, that is,
...
Is this what you were pointing out?
No : it's not frictional gripping that is to be limited,
but jamming of the collaring part and the wraps
vs. the loosen-to-slide part.

Re gripping, you might indeed have less (as you
have variously per hitch-rope relative diameter)
contact and, um  ;) , "grippage" per wrap, but
OTOH, having the added bit of gripped diameter
could actually help (I think) with stiff hitching rope
--why the ProhGrip works better via the tucked
tail adding diameter than otherwise.

Further, though, IIRC, there can be various ways
that wrapping rope's twin strands get oriented
vis-a-vis 'biner & object rope, too.  (And, though
one might theorize about relative amounts, the
knot is pretty much going to work for its purpose
of ascending, I think, and so differences might
only be realized with heavy (and likely unintended)
loading!?

--dl*
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 06:30:22 AM »

2) Can rephrase.
Sometimes with the c. in relatively large rope
(relative to bound object(s), i.e.), setting it by just
pulling end-vs-end is going to show the issue in
that the perfectly hauled-straight tangent is only
to touch a point of the generally circular object
--but the binding overwrap will be pulled off of
the either-side-of-tangent-point by this setting,
to some degree, defeating perfect tightening
(which could otherwise come, fighting friction,
by pulling ends down-around the object in an
accommodation of the overwrap's want to tighten.

Note that even the books who all parrot the "so tight
ya gotta cut it ..." assertion nevetheless also go along
with the idea that it's only a temporary whipping!?
Huh, too tight to come undone but ... "temporary"?!
(I have had such a whipping loosen.)

Something to give the constrictor more endurance
is to extend it somehow to put a U-turn into its tails;
the point being to deny them a straight-backing-out path
(There won't be much force pulling the very tails, here,
and that on the portion (pre-U-turn extension) will meet
with this final lock.)

Quote
4) Will leave as is.
Note that the extra *parts* that make a strangle
a "multi-" strangle can go to other than overwraps
--e.g., they might be manifest as an extra twisting of
ends : which is how I make a whipping, with just one
extra twist/tuck of the ends (and so need extra
overwraps to cover this extended buried ends-twisting
(need 4-5 in mason line, 7-8 in monofilament fishline).

And the fisherman's bend is another orientation of the
multiple overhand!

Quote
5) No room for another knot without pushing everything on to the next page. Linking nightmare!
TO CONFIRM/correct : I should've said "525" (and should
have this memorized), but just for kicks, #521 is the same
knot, topologically.  I've shown this (plus yet another form!)
somewhere on this forum.  You can probably get from the
higher (525) to the lower without much trouble, manipulating
it; going the other way has led me to frustration --I know
that it can be done, HAVE DONE it, and yet *now* I would
find myself unable ... !!!  <arcggggh> (But currently I've a good
grip on this, at last.)

And this (525) does seem worthwhile for a non-jamming
mid-line stopper.  It takes a little working to get compact.

Quote
6) Will need to see scanned pencil drawing to clarify your point/see how hard change is.
Well, verbalizing from another starting point,
keep in mind the objective : some tightness
on the SPart when slack.  The overall path of
the SPart is alike --through hitched-rope's bight end,
and around all these "seizing" wraps--; the difference
comes in putting in the wrap or two that expressly
grip the SPart to retain tied tightness (and which
wraps should be frictionally distant enough from
loaded force to not become overly tight --they come
after the SPart's big U-turn, after all).

I think it "grippage-wise" better if those wraps to hold
the SPart of the hitching line go around the SPart of
the other rope (if it's not an eye, i.e.) --and so they'll
contribute something to gripping that.  (One can need
ample length to put in sufficient wraps in some cases.)

And finish with that tail on the *level* of the SPart,
and it really does work well to pry back material
(freeing itself and the knot so readily, thus!).  This
comes because my variation wraps away from
the bight-end, unlike Asher's which comes to it.

.:.  Knowing the design goal and insight to the mechanisms
achieving this (even w/my poor description) should get you
there (maybe with a version of what I mean rather than a
precise match).
And, no, it's not so easily tied, as one needs to keep tucking
the working end around the bight's legs but under/within
the hitching line's bight/loop's surrounding.  But one can
--and need to-- put on each wrap tightly; and tightening
the bight legs together, thus, can maybe help by their
pinching of that surrounding hitching-line material, like
a third hand, so you can continually reeve its end back
and forth within, THEN draw down that loop to hold.


--dl*
====

75RR

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Re: Knot Booklet
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 10:27:18 AM »
Sorry I was unclear!

1) Can do. (Will correct)

2) I can rephrase. (Still think cutting best option in twine, yanking tail in larger stuff would work if not tied around anything delicate.)

3) I can rephrase.

4) Will leave as is (drawing), but will rephrase.

5) No room for another knot without pushing everything on to the next page. Linking nightmare! (This still true)

6) Will need to see scanned pencil drawing to clarify your point/see how hard change is. (This still true) (If you want me to change my drawing you could at least provide a small sketch of your own!)

7) I can attempt a rephrase. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 10:28:39 AM by 75RR »