Author Topic: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB  (Read 15879 times)

alpineer

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 10:44:48 PM »
The great Buster Keaton, who busted his chops with the greatest comedic genius of them all, Roscoe Arbuckle, upon whose broad shoulders many comedians have since stood. I'm shedding more tears than Tammy Faye Baker in acknowledgement of their contribution to the art.     
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYlMqpN7fk
Not until Jacques Tati did the complexion of the art change. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE9t98Gox60
                                                                                             http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWqrwC8Ntk
Well, I have one thing in common with Buster, my Canadian heritage.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 04:59:18 AM by alpineer »

alpineer

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2013, 03:44:10 AM »
  Balance:)

Perfect balance, I might add, for the situation at hand. :)
Guys like Keaton ushered in a new era, from which those after can only follow, or they must create their own new era.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 04:21:06 AM by alpineer »

xarax

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2013, 05:23:30 AM »
   JP, I wonder if your TIB method of the locked Tresse bowline and the TIB method of the ( "modified" / second /white ) Scott s locked bowline are somehow related to each other, and both of them to the TIB method of the Lehman s locked bowline. If that is so, perhaps those bowlines are only three members of a broader class of bowlines, which can be locked with a Scott s "simple lock"  and turned into TIB knots at the same time. We have only to drive the Tail around the nipping loop, and then, following an anti-parallel direction to the Standing Part, through the collar. Miraculously, in the new locked bowline, the collar can be reeved our of the whole nub, and the knot can become untangled !
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 05:52:42 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Luca

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2013, 06:58:56 PM »
Hi xarax,

Although I believe that all the three methods are related, I think that the one for the Tresse and the one for the DLlocked, are more closely related to each other, because they work in exactly the same way:
One have to have a little patience to "decipher" them, but in this post http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4476.msg29355#msg29355  Dan Lehman provides all the details necessary to make TIB any bowline with a simple/standard collar  that may come to mind,just starting from realizing the nipping turn directly as it appears also in the finished knot, as  when one makes the corresponding no-TIB version,and also he provides the instructions for making four different versions (righthanded + lefthanded x 2 different retuckings) for each bowline one decides to do with this method"a la Bellringer." Contrary to what I commented on that thread, after having fumbled a bit with this method,I also realized that it is quick and easy also with regard to its practicality.
Now, the method proposed by Dan Lehman and the one proposed by James (I like! ;)) for the DLlocked, they really are not so different:the only major difference is that the first begins directly from the nipping turn and then pass through it the bight or the turn, while in the second occurs Basically that one build the nipping loop around the bight / turn previously built.
So, the second method for the DLlocked corresponds to the option "(c)/(d)" (depends on how it is twisted the bight) of the DL method, while the method for the Tresse corresponds to the option "(a)", but building initially the tresse nipping  structure instead of the standard nipping loop.In the same way, in fact, with the second method, orienting / twisting the bight around which the nipping structure will be built , one can get the same four versions of "handedness" / closure of the bowline.

                                                                                                                   Bye!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 07:13:16 PM by Luca »

xarax

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2013, 07:43:16 PM »
   Now, the method proposed by Dan Lehman and the one proposed by James ... for the DL locked, they really are not so different

  I have not studied all those slightly different methods that much, because I believe that the mnemonic shown at :
  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4476.msg29203#msg29203
  is the shortest and the easiest possible one !  :) However, it lacks generality, and I do not see how it can be modified without losing its initial simplicity to generate more TIB bowlines...
This is not a knot.

Luca

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2013, 10:35:16 PM »
Whatever method is used for the DLlocked,it seems that one get to a point where has(at least topologically)a simlpe noose in her hands;now: with regard to this type of lock, if you want to get any kind of nipping structure different from the simple nipping loop of the classic  bowline, it seems to me that you're forced to act before it happens: If you start directly from this simple noose, I think at that point the games seem closed ​​with regard to this.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 10:58:46 PM by Luca »

alpineer

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Re: Tresse bowline variation/modification -- TIB
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2013, 11:59:30 PM »
I have shown you 4 pictures of the locked Tresse bowline, but you dismissed them as "structures that you have already seen..." - but you never said where you have seen them !

I saw them in my own hands while fiddling with the Tresse.