Author Topic: Essential Knots?  (Read 45245 times)

Amphiprion

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2006, 07:24:34 PM »
As a short haul ( a fews days/nights at a time, no months) backpacker, I have a few knots I use every time I am on the trail.  Interesting to me, that as I have grown in my knowledge, many of my knots have been replaced by others.  I would be curious what others think are important knots for backpackers.
The knots I typically use include:


Constrictor knot - to secure my water bottle and throw it over a branch to hang food stuff at night.
figure eight loop - It's rare for me to use a loop while backpacking, it hasn't come up, but if my tent required line to pitch it or secure it, which many backer packers tents do, I would use this.  (My tent stakes right into grommets on tabs on the tent)
trucker's hitch - any time I need an adjustable length of line, I use this instead of the taut line hitch. 
   I tend to use a round turn and two half hitches, alpine or overhand loop, and two half hitches when making the  trucker's hitch.  A fellow backpacker I know uses the rolling hitch to achieve an adjustable line.
Ian's knot - for shoelaces
Reef knot - to tie bandana around my neck or head.

To go back to the idea of prepared knots before actually going on a trip as mentioned in other posts to go sailing, etc. I use simple lanyards made of paracord, which is the only cord I take with me backpacking, and use:

Lanyard knot to form a decorative loop to hold:  compass, whistle, and lighter.  The use of this is totally me wanting something fancy b/c I can't help myself.  Many light weight backpackers would chastise me for taking up the extra cord and therefore space and weight...I'm talking about guys who strip out the core of the paracord to save on weight.
fisherman's bend to secure lanyard
I've placed Turk's Heads on my walking staff and Moku whipped a leather hand grip on it.
I have recently begun the practice of securing my knife to my person as well.  I use a length of paracord that is hitched to a small carabiner, the carabiner clipped to a belt loop.  The other end of the paracord is hitched to my knife.






KC

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 01:17:47 PM »
Wow, embarrassed i forgot the Butterfly as a midline knot choice/service and another category; dang it!  Good for bending ropes together too; or isolating weak part of line; multiple loops.  i do think that there should also be a mention for one of the midline Bowlines (like a Lehman single); for when the force will be applied predominately from one end to the loop.  Theorizing that a Butterfly should be loaded predomintaley end to end; with lesser or no force in the loop.   Using to shorten line to eye/loop or using more vertically (whereby loading in eye doesn't leverage force on both ends of line to be more than load) than horizontally.

A sheepshank was also an oversight, but would place it more with bowlines as a category.

i think with all the warnings, a Reef/ Square is best applied where it can stabilize itself against 'the load' (from flipping around and undoing self/ testing self at different angles until free).  Also best if in a kind of a loop back to itself (so that part of the loading is on other side/ solid side of loop opposite knot/ so that full force is not on knot).  i consider it kind of a jam of bights to selves, rather than a lock of a knot.  Whereby a SheetBend is an upgrade; takes one leg and makes it the lock of a hitching onto one of the same bights that was offered to Reef.  Another unmentioned, possible upgrade path would be a Surgeon's Knot.

Trucker's Hitch is fairly mentioned too; in that it gets so much mention as a knot.   Though i consider it more of a tightening (3:1)rig of multiplying force; to lift/ compress/ tighten.  Similarily; i've always thought a Parbuckle  as a (2:1)rig; but it too is many times mentioned as a knot.  It is very useful for loading spars; much of list would be shown for expected activity/area; perhaps not every knot in all the categories i list being shown(but those that are/ shown as a group of like lacings each finished a different way for a different use).  i think it's 2:1 action is better than a pulley on the spar, when going up ramp or other rubbings, where a 2:1 pulley would leave the spar dragging; and the parbuckle allows spar to roll/ walk to aid in it's own transportation/ not just drag.

i think a Timber Hitch for pulling inline with spar should be maid into a Killick.  Whereby, the pull of the Standing Part away from spar, should lock opposite side of Timber Hitch into the spar; in a straight line/ not leveraged angle/ hitching meeting the spar perpendicularily.  The preceding half of a Killick reorganizing the forces, to be able to more surely, and straightly pull inline with the spar.  This is why Mr. Ashley made seperate chapters out of hitches that meet a spar perpendicularily vs. inline.  i think all the inline hitchings he shows offer the common charachteristic of these mechanics.

For me, i'd place a Carrick with Backhands; as i make it as a 'muenter to muenter'; but i only work smaller, more flexible lines.  i think the mechanics for correct application and deployment could be better understood as the commonness of the mechancal patterns in a group becomes more evident through this grouping of reptitions that make it easier to remember them in the first place.

Nice List evolving here!
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Lasse_C

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2006, 08:25:32 AM »
I agree, KC, it seems to be a nice list evolving here!
I hope to be able to compile a proper list of suggestions, and If I can make it work it would be fun to make a poll and let people vote on which knots they consider "essential". After all, the needs are different! KnotNow apparently has a frequent need for sheepshanks, for example, whereas I during my 35 or so years of knotting have never really needed one yet! (I know it, naturally - if I don´t the day I do need it I might be in trouble!)

I think we will let the suggestions evolve a little further yet...

Lasse C

cbrew6

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 07:24:49 PM »
never in 40 yrs have i ever used a sheep shank. never had the need for it i guess.   only ones i ever used is   cow hitch, adjustable hitch, clove hitch, half hitch, bowline, constrictor, figure eight, eye splice & back splice and artillery hitch. maybe couple others here an there. but i guess its a short list...  fergot, the carrick bend too
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 03:41:31 AM by cbrew6 »

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2006, 06:57:58 AM »
Hi Cbrew6,
  So odd to see you as a newbie!!  You are anything but!  Good list but of course we still need to talk about the sheepshank.  Good to find you at IGKT as well as KHWW.  The sheephank works everytime when the load and the power to  pull the load are far apart and you don't want to overhaul the whole tackle each time it comes chock-a-block.  It also works when you want to remove slack and reinstate slack as the demand merits.  Both ends remain fixed and you raise or lower the load with the SS as the adjustment.  Of course there are other less seeet ways of doing the same task.  Here is the simplest example.  I have a gate.  When closed the line is slack but attached to the gate and the anchor.   When I swing the gate open both ends of the line are still attached but a SS holds the gate open.   One end is high in the trees and the other end is on the end of the boom forming my gate.  Next example;  We pull trees from the woods.  I drive the SUV while the other end is on the tree.   I drive as far as I can.  I back up and Alice pulls up slack.  With no fancy bends or hitches she casts in a SS and I can pull again until I come to a solid object.  Sure, Alice could put in a new "mid line loop" at the SUV or stand at the log and haul back to herself enough slack and rehitch the timber hitch... now with 100' of excess line.  Just a thought.
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oceanplats

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2006, 01:55:03 PM »
whats the purpose of a carrick bend,

aknotter

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2006, 04:33:53 PM »
It's a "bend". Used to "bend" two lines together. I think one of it's better uses
is to join two lines of different size?
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Fairlead

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2006, 04:45:06 PM »
The Carrick Bend is use to join HEAVY ropes/hawsers so that the bend will comfortably go round a capstan/winch if necessary.

Gordon

squarerigger

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2006, 05:40:15 PM »
Quote
I think one of it's better uses
is to join two lines of different size?

It is normally used where the lines are of the SAME size, not different sizes.  When put under strain it collapses into a knot without much of a smooth surface.  When used around a capstan, its working ends would be seized to the standing part so that the bend lies flat (more or less).  That's how I have seen it used successfully.  Good animation on a different post here... ;D

SR

Willeke

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2006, 08:34:38 PM »
Usefull varation on the truckers hitch: http://home.hetnet.nl/~splits/knots63/6.htm

Willeke
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KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2006, 04:55:03 AM »
Hi SR,
  The working ends opposed and then deliberately colapsed formation is aswsomely strong and the line most often breaks somewhere else or ruptures some hardware.  This is a great knot and this is why the Zep, Hunter, Butterfly et al have to work so hard to stand up.  The refered to bends are younger and may work to the top.  Some are very fast to tie.  Some are easy to remember.  Time will sort out the best.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

Tiedupdavid

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2006, 03:38:02 PM »
I think that the essential knots are the knots that we use on a regular basis. Therefore there will only be 10 or less essential knots, I think that a list of essential knots should include:
  • Reef knot
  • Bowline
  • Clove Hitch
  • Figure of eight knot
  • Overhand knot

Alot of people say that the sheepshank is a useful knot but I have never found the need to use it in a damaged piece of rope. I just cut the rope and tie it together with a reef knot. Am I doing the wrong thing?

Willeke

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2006, 04:55:22 PM »
Yes David,
you are doing the wrong thing.
Never use a reefknot to tie two pieces of rope together.
The reefknot is likely to fail, and sometimes with a dissaster as result.
There are many knots, called bends, to use instead.

The sheetbend is the best known, the carrick bend for thick rope, and many more.

Willeke

PS. read reply 13 on page one of this thread to find a use for a sheepshank.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 04:57:20 PM by Willeke »
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.

KC

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2006, 10:06:40 PM »
i was tied up Sunday (like a good knottier) in think tank mode (so i missed chat again) making presentation for Girl Scouts.  i guess that is befitting, cuz last year they called me a Soccer Mom!  But it was cool; as the other Soccer Moms were quite a lot of fun to hang with!  i gave the Scouts each a 4' piece of bright red 3/8" line with 1 end taped in brgiht blue and opposite in bright yellow that we all tied knots with as we went along.  Went pretty well.

i put this together for an accompanying handout: Knots to Know 101.  Worked and learned some more about drawing knots; with depth of field/ shadowing and also revealing part of line behind spar etc.  i try to show here theories of presenting like lacings and how learning 1 can give you a few; instead of L-earning each one as a seperate mountain to conquer.

Pix looked better on paper and especially in flash that i drew them with; than this .pdf format.  i used Flash; cuz still dream about beating problems of animating knots with these types of colors and shadowing.  The new version of Flash lends itself more to this target.  Each line is drawn then copied and edited 4x to get the colors and shadowing.  The shadowing is harder to do on the white background for printing.  When i do it online in Flash, will use black background and shadow everything; but shadows will only show when on top of something automatically; and not when on the black background!  So, i guess i've figured out part of it!

Any hints on art strategies etc. appreciated.  Some day i'm gonna get this stuff write!

-KC
aka TheTreeSpyder
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 10:51:02 PM by KC »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2006, 04:48:54 AM »
I drive as far as I can.  I back up and Alice pulls up slack.  With no fancy bends or hitches she casts in a SS and I can pull again ... .
Sure, Alice could put in a new "mid line loop" at the SUV or stand at the log and haul back to herself enough slack and rehitch the
timber hitch... now with 100' of excess line.  Just a thought.
Hmmm, but I'm trying to picture what sort of Sheepshank it is that Alice fixes with
ONE HUNDRED FEET of line !! ?? :o   --is it relatively short and stocky (many back'n'forths),
or a lonnnnnnnnnnng trad. structure which would make about 50' long (and which would be
a problem for that going-through-the-redirection-block you described?  And this recurs (with
even more total slack)?  If she's at the log, there could be an eye-knot at that point from the log
to which the rest of the haul line was tied with a becket hitch, which could be released and
quickly retied, the growing slack joining the log in being hauled each time!?  Otherwise, at
the SUV end, I'd think a new hitch would be cast, excess rope making a growing pile inside.
(Or, at either end, maybe one of those Flying/Tugboat Bowlines would come in handy, using
a toggle in an eye-to-eye joint at the log vice Becket Hitch.)

 :)