Author Topic: Essential Knots?  (Read 45920 times)

KC

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2006, 01:02:56 PM »
Slipped anchor around a round bumper, Fig. 8 hardware on truck hitch with soft lock, Friction Hitch on truck hitch- with slack stored in bed.  Rope around truck hitch and friction hitch back to self if length variance of rope per load is amicable range for this setup.  Bell ringer's knot around  truck hitch adjusts and stores slack in bed; can give adjustment range between loads if variance isn't too much.
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2006, 06:06:28 AM »
Hi KC,
  Nice choices.  When working alone I like to back the vehicle so I can watch (hopefully) the load before it fetches on something solid.  Both rigs (pickumup.. dead at the moment) and Montero (300,000 miles and getting younger every day... just like me) have round steel pipe brush guards at front (no horn ends, all continous bend).  So it is pretty easy to adjust whatever knot and then toss the slack on the hood.  I hadn't thought of the bellringer (half a Sheepshank) as it capsizes too easily (the intended purpose), but with the addition of a toggle... toss the slack on the hood, YEEHAW.  No stopping me now!  Unfortunately even the trusty Montero is running a bit rough so it is wheelborrow and easy wood until I work on the carburator of Montero.  O.K.  You can come with Derek and we will be boys playing in the woods (did not look at your profile.... boys and girls playing in the woods?).  Thanks for the post.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

DerekSmith

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2006, 11:41:51 AM »
snip...
 O.K.  You can come with Derek and we will be boys playing in the woods (did not look at your profile.... boys and girls playing in the woods?).  Thanks for the post.

Thanks for the invite Roy, unfortunately, the nearest I am likely to be able to afford is to look up your patch of woods on Google Earth and imagine the sights and smells of the woodland - enjoy them for me.

Derek

PS, where are you situated, so I can 'stick a pin' in the map labled "Roy and Alice"

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2006, 05:44:55 AM »
Hi,
  48, 30 and 121 30, more orless.
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KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2006, 05:53:19 AM »
Hi All ,
  Took a day off from broken bones.  Went with a fellow kotter, two cars, to 4,300 and looked at hills and clouds.  A good day.   I came down off the hill to my camp and cut some fire wood into the wheel borrow.   Now to cook and to bed.  Knots used today:  Timber hitch.   Blackwall hitch.  Slipped reef knot.  Half hitch.  A knot we need to discuss.  Maybe no name.  Good night!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 05:55:24 AM by KnotNow! »
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DerekSmith

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2006, 08:12:25 AM »
Hi,
  48, 30 and 121 30, more orless.

What an amazing place to live, although the co-ords put you right in the middle of the river, on the edge of the large island !!  From there I would think floating your timber would be the best bet  :D

Count yourself lucky to be able to live that life.  A friend of mine in the UK who is trying to run a small animal rescue sanctuary in some woods in Norfolk, has the council threatening to evict him because two trees got damaged !!  Enjoy it while you can, 'civilisation' is coming to a town near you!!

Today I used the Vice Versa and the KC Sling Hitch, the Constrictor and of course the shoelace knot.

Derek

KC

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2006, 02:42:35 PM »
i haven't had any problem with Bell Ringer capsizing; but i make more than a half a SheepShank; by making 3-5 half hitches in Standing Part to grip bight of Bitters with.  Also, i make sure that the loops that get tourqued into these Half Hitches are all alike/ same direction: either overhand or underhand loops.  Then; finish with overhand knot in the Bitters bight.  Easy to stretch out further for next load after releasing Overhand; must make the lacing further from truck to be able to compress shorter for subsequent loads, for easiest adjustability. 

i favour riggings that allow unused line to be stored on vehichle by Bitters fininshing at or facing truck.  Or, in the example of the prussik back to self for adjustable loop; that all line is used/ out of the way.

Only light loads pulled with bumper hitch; otherwise pull is from inline pull point on frame.  Ball Hitch on bumper is generally a leveraged pull on bumper; not inline witht he frame; inviting failure/bending of bumper etc.  i keep a carabiner in frame hole on my rear frame; on opposite side of exhaust for a quick place to hook too.

Never stand, sit, look etc. (unprotected) inline on a rope under such tensions as these.  That line breaks, and it could cut ya in half!  So, watching what you are doing, not letting load jam, being aware of what you are pulling; and thereby forces on line you are invoking is very good!  Also, we generally throw some wood in back of turck at start of day and keep it there all day; or replace.  This extra weight directly over drive axle gives much better traction.  All ways back up at delivery point to take tension off line; but not so much as to run over line and challenge tiretrapping line against hitchpoint on truck.  Pulleys on carabiners are nice placed on anchors, to pull load one direction, unclip carabiner/pulley and then continue pull; essentially giving a right turning path to spar/ load.

i used to have an olde lil'Toyota truck with hood all caved in.  Could drag from rear and load hood up with firewood too.  Then would pull and haul to destination; gun it in and then stop sharply.  Wood on hood would self eject from the inertia; and wouldn't have to unload it!  i only had to get out of truck on destination end if i had to untie load i was dragging; otherwise was a quick round trip and only getting in and out on one end to re-load!.  i called it my inertia dump truck. 

On the flip side; with a bigger truck or heavy equipment; several spars/ brush piles etc. can be pulled at once in train by use of half hitches on intermediary loads; extending to a half hitch on nose of final load with a later anchoring hitch on the final load in train.  Many hitches (including Timber, Clove, Running Bowline etc.) are made to pull perpendicular to load/ spar; so that the Turns are inline with Standing Part.  But dragging is an inline type pull on spar; that will try to pull on turns around the host spar perpendicular to the Standing Part; leveraging force agianst the Hitch.  Preceding with a Half Hitch; hust grabs the host spar in the Half Hitch and the force flow continues on(the part after the Half Hitch is inline with the part before Half Hitch).  This makes an inline pull that just grips the spar perpendicular to Standing Part; but the pull is inline; as the line continues to trace down spar.  Then; it terminates at another grab point (Timber, Clove etc.); that leverages the forces as termination is perpendicular to Standing Part; but only after reducing the tension pull in the line so that it is not leveraged to more force than the initiating Standing Part pull; only leveraged by direction! 

The placing apart of the 2 grab points/ hitchings in itself gives some inline pull dynamic; so the farther they are apart; in general the straighter the pull.  Like in drawing 2 farther apart points; then connecting makes a straighter line.  With just a Timber, Clove, Running Bowline to pull from on front of spar will even give more 'sway' as the hitch tries to pull perpendicular to spar (so hitch will be inline to itself); but because the forcepoint of the hitch pulling is spaced away from drag and Center of Gravity of spar; this wins out as being the more major factor of being inline; and spar drags fairly straight with some 'sway'.  The inline pull strategy of preceding with Half Hitch reduces/ negates this sway.  This is why the ABOK bible has 2 seperate chapters on spar pulls: Chapter 21- "Hitches to Spar and Rail(Right Angle of Pull)" and 22-"Hitches to Mast, Rigging and Cable(Lengthwise Pull)" back to back.  Also, many lacings in chapter 21 are similair to those in 22; with a preceding Half Hitch type strategy employed.

Proceeding on to Chap. 23 "Hitches to Stake and Post, Pile and Bollard"; we see more of the right angle pulls of strategy.  There ar no parts after the coils around host to place inline with the initiating Standing Part pull; and the back of the turns themsleves are inline with the Standing Part Pull.  So we find that the inititating force is inline with it's equal and opposite on the backside of the spar; so is not leveraged against itself.   When calculating these flows of force; we must look at each change/port seperately to define(as it is a seperate machine/ cog of the whole system); and keep defining until we reach the termination of the force flow in the Bitters. 
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2006, 05:24:05 AM »
Hi Derek,
  Sorry about the less than precise L&L, for all navigators.  Just looking at the DeLorm map and trying to guess where I am.  GPS won't work here in the canyon so my best guess is all you can get.  I am on the South side of the Skagit and the West side of Jordan Creek.  I have about 1000' of Jordan on my deed and about 1000' of road frontage.  Which has nothing to do with knots.
  With knots, the knot I started with is ABOK #160 and ABOK # 161.   The axel of the modern car is full of hydraulic lines, most fragile.  Also many not have any beam in an enginerring sense to hitch to, unless you want to cut your line on sharp edges or haul on the weak part of the structure.  So I decided to use a solid hitch at the log and a solid hitch at the vehicle frame and have Alice to haul up the the slack.  I've been trying to read the preceeding posts.  I sure wish we could pull wood and break bread.  I think we could enjoy a day (or a month) in camp in knotting fellowship.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 05:34:16 AM by KnotNow! »
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KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2006, 10:39:33 AM »
Hi, just rereading the posts.  Wood on the hood reminded me of the U.S. GP at Watkins Glen New York (circ 1962) where some folks were motivating around the grounds with the top of their car stove in and much ice and a keg of beer in the resulting well.
  Boy, it is chilling down here this eve.  The wood I am burning has been dead on the stump for a long time.  Since the rain has not come back we can burn stump wood so we are warm and toasty.
  Today was water day (when I pump up some creek water into our holding tank).  Often I come back and do something useful for the 20 minutes or so... but today I sat down at the creek and tied THK's in hand.   I can do that but not well.   I am envious of folks (Patrick for one, and Bob also) who can get a day of knots with no picture.  Me?  20 minutes is my limit.  Knots?  Sure, reef to bind the suction hose for transport.  Constrictor for hose repair instead of hose clamps.  I use some copper tube in the broken hose, wrap with duct tape and add 4 constrictors.  Good until the next spot the bear chews the hose.  Why do they do that?
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2006, 09:26:05 AM »
Hi all,
  Moved some wood today for the house..  Alice is on a morphene patch so no electric blanket for her!  (so no hot bed for me!)  I cut some very dry fir and used a timberhitch (ABOK #1665),  and my sling (any loop passed back to hold in one hand), so I can carry two loads of wood, one in each hand.
  Odd to not have rain so late in the year.  Going to help a neighbor with yard work. An adventure.  Much wood to move so will take two handy billies and some straps as well as a very sharp chain saw (sure to be dull by nightfall).   No fancy rigging on this one.  Two years ago I'd have picked it up and walked with it.  Now two handy billy's is the only option.  Damn I hate growing old.  Of course the handy billies and straps give me the option of moving or holding logs so I can cut them with the saw.  If you try to lift a tree with your foot and cut the tree with a saw... your WILL lose toes.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 10:27:57 AM by KnotNow! »
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KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2006, 07:46:32 AM »
The wood toay is  done deal.  I'll stop;e bleeding as soon as I can put a patch on itlOf course tomorrow there is high wood and some time to think about it.
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KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2006, 04:23:10 PM »
I helped a neighbor move some logs out of his creek.   We, Chip and I,  used a bowline at his truck and a "timberline on the bight" at the logs.   Odd that I never had to tie the "timberline on a bight" before, 50 some odd years.  Of course it worked just fine.  I've always put the timberline at the log and then put a "bight knot" at the truck or use the stupid SS for short hauls.  "Works well with Others." is not my strong point.    Chip drove away until there was no place to drive to and I, in the creek bed, untied the timberhitch on a bight and retied it with the slack to my back.  Very fast and easy.  Worked fine.  So here is another way to move a load and take up slack.  Alice could have put in the SS,  had she been there, or I could stay with the log and haul back the slack and make a new" timberline on the bight", which is what we did.  No "Alice on hand" and me too crippled to climb the creek bank... go figure.
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squarerigger

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2006, 05:30:30 PM »
Okay Roy,

I'll bight - what's a "timberline on the bight" - is it a timber hitch made with a bight instead?  Maybe you should draw it for us poor slobs who don't recognize the term and need edumacating then send it to Joe for insertion in Knot News?

Lindsey ;D

KnotNow!

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2006, 05:16:26 AM »
Hi Lindsey, et al,
  Slip of the keyboard, sort of.  It is the Timber Hitch, ABOK 1665, but use a bight instead of a working end.  I never did find it in ABOK under any of the Timber Hitch references but it is a logical extension of the ABOK Timber Hitch.  Seems as if the arborists must be using something like that..... hard to think I'm the first.  Unfortunately I learned the "Timber Hitch" as the "Timberline" just as I learned the "Square Knot" instead of the "Reef Knot".  Late at night and after much lifting of wood I tend to revert to the language of my birth ('murican with a Yankee pitch). :-[  Just for fun:  Where I was born  "Hitch" was a verb and was for horses and wagons and plows.  "Half Hitches" were "half knots".  I never even knew it was a splice I was making until I got ABOK.  It was "long", "short" or "eye".  This might be a thread for a new post?
  Well, I try to use the ABOK terms at all times (regardless of the word in my mind).
  Back to the thread at hand.  I was reminded why I use the SS at home.  Down in the creek, with not too much room to run, the noise of the truck and being mostly deaf, it is good to keep the people out of the line of haulage... so any rigging that keeps people on the flat land and away from swinging loads or moving trucks is good.  Again, sorry to cause a mix up in terms.  No need to draw a picture of this Timber Hitch on a Bight.. do you think?
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Amphiprion

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Re: Essential Knots?
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2006, 09:43:02 PM »
What's a handy billy?