Author Topic: A simple TIB locked bowline  (Read 22624 times)

Luca

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2013, 11:30:54 PM »
If I had the chance to make a video of how to run this knot, instead of using KnotMaker, I can assure you it would be different from that by James, but this is only a matter of gestures and angles, because in the essence of the operation, I guarantee you that it is absolutely the same thing:for example,the method proposed by Dan Lehman may very well be a different alternative in that there is an exchange for the component to start the knot (I tried, but I do not feel very well (but these things are, such maybe also you hint, too, very individual and dictated by habit)). 

                                                                                                  Bye!
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:37:20 PM by Luca »

James Petersen

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2013, 04:18:27 AM »
I was not trying to tie a new method. I was simply working from Luca's diagrams. Sorry, Xarax, but I didn't particularly like making a slipped overhand and then pulling the loop back part way. For my large hands it was a bit too fiddly. I find that I can tie Luca's method in hand and fairly quickly. I simply wanted the video to show this method in a way that was easier for me than the diagrams.

-- J:P

alanleeknots

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2013, 07:12:06 AM »
Hi All,
        I have a few variation of this TIB locked bowlines here, hope you like it.
       Thanks    alan lee.

xarax

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2013, 07:56:19 AM »
I didn't particularly like making a slipped overhand and then pulling the loop back part way.

This stage was meant to be an easy memorisable, not easy tied. Everybody knows and can remember how to tie a slipped overhand knot.
Do not forget that I work with climbing 10mm+ ropes, not with smaller material, where to pinch a bight of the overhand and pull it away would require some dexterity, indeed.

   I believe that you and Luca still have not realized what you really do, because you do it by tyng the same things, with a different order...You make a first bight, right ? This is the first bight of the 3-bights method. See your fourth picture. There you have two bights, the one half-reeved through the other - and both of them been twisted 180 degrees around their axis. So, this is the first and the second bight of the 3-bights method, only that I form the bights separately, in different parts of the line, and only then I "wear" the one through the other half way - you make the same thing, but you form the second bight around the neck of the first in its final place, you do not form them at different places of the line, and then wear the first through the second. I believe that "my" method, which is Ashley s method, of course, is simpler conceptually, easier to memorize, and more general, since with the same METHOD. just by altering details, you can tie many knots ! At the final step, Ashley s method and your method are identical, because you reave the third bight through the opening of the half-reeved one( fifth picture ). You may not see your third bight, but its material is there, where it has been from the star : in between the first and the second bight. It is the "bridge" between the first and the second bight.
   If you do the same thing, but, for the third bight you use material of the line beyond the first two, you can tie mid-line eye-knots suitable for directional pull, like what we need in Trucker s hitch. See :
 http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg21210#msg21210
 http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1870.msg21216#msg21216

 I do not have a good memory, and I hate to be forced to memorize things that are not connected to each other with some logically coherent order. So, I prefer methods that are quite general, and where I can see some inner logic, some rationale. That is why I prefer the 3-bights method, in its "pure" form I described at the thread about the pet loops. The second, more special method I describe here, at Reply#11, was just an attempt to find something quicker, that would be as "simple" as the particular very simple knot itself.

   JP, please, do what I had suggested to kd8eech :Tie all the knots the 3-bight method can generate, first with the bights as they are, without been twisted 180 degrees around their necks, and then by twisted bights, in every combination : one of them twisted clock-wise or counter-clockwise, two of them, both twisted at every possible combination of clock-wise and counter-clockwise turns, and, finally three of them, also twisted in every possible of the two twists each. If you tie all those eye-knots that you can tie this way, you will appreciate the 3-bights method, in particular, and a METHOD, that is, a general scheme of things, in general.
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2013, 06:47:26 PM »
Hmmm, after JP's further presentation of Luca's tying method,
  [Sometimes it takes more than one whack to the noggin
   to get it working.]
I'm inclined to reverse my "objection" above, as I now see that
in fact the eye-sizing comes quite conveniently, and one can
see the starting with the tail's loop as a means to ensuring
some material efficiency --i.e., no more than necessary--
in forming that.  After the central nipping loop is formed,
and maybe after the tuck out of the eye bight is made,
it should be convenient to adjust it for the desired size.

Good show!  (as those funny Brits like to say)   ;)


--dl*
====

alanleeknots

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2013, 12:46:36 AM »
 :) :) :)

Thanks   alan lee

xarax

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2013, 06:51:03 AM »
   Alan, I believe you already submitted this at Reply#32 ( first picture ). Also, it would be easier to the viewer if you show the tying procedure in more steps ( without this red or yellow thin line !  :) ).
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 08:27:23 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2013, 03:27:20 AM »
Hi All,   
        Thanks for the reply X1, I  am planning to make some videos how to tie the loops that I have presented here.
        Can anyone tell me what is Lehman s locked bowline,  with so little spare time that I have, it hurt my brain so
        much try to read and find the picture of Lehman s locked bowline.

       Thanks    alan lee :) :) :)

Ruby

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2013, 04:18:30 AM »
maybe these?:

Locktight-Loop-I



Locktight-Loop-II


and more:

« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 04:20:47 AM by Ruby »

xarax

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2013, 06:34:46 AM »
what is the Lehman s locked bowline

The same knot with the one shown in the first post of this thread.
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2013, 07:41:04 AM »
Hi All,
        Thanks for the info X1 and Ruby, I will get my video done the next few day.
     
         Thanks (感謝)   alan lee. :) :) :)

Luca

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2013, 12:16:38 AM »
Single Bowline on the Bight!(aka Dan Lehman's Locked Bowline with the original method and sketch!)

Almost at the bottom of this document:  http://www.pssurvival.com/ps/knots/knot_knowledge_photo_illustrations_2004.pdf

                                                                                                         Bye!

P.S.Alan,thank you,I wait for your video,but without hurry, when you have time!




Ruby

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2013, 07:47:29 AM »
tying a knot in bight is always interesting ... :D

such as jug sling, shakehands loop ...
to tie these knots, just use left hand to grasp the two end, and only use right hand to tie, by using all fingers and  twisting wrist ...  smoothly tying is interesting

xarax

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2013, 08:29:27 AM »
tying a knot in bight is always interesting ... :D   

   To me. it is always fascinating ! To be able to transform a straight flexible 1D line into a round rigid 3D object, and vice versa, has something magical in it, that I never lose the opportunity to enjoy.
   The method shown by Dan Lehman ( but kept secret from the audience of this Forum, probably because the author cares more about the knotting archaeologists of the future, I guess ), is exactly the 3-bights method me too has used in tying it, as well as all the other crossing  knot based and single nipping turn based bowlines presented in (1) and (2). When the collar is kept in its initial "low" position and it is encircling the eye leg pair of lines, we get the crossing knot based siblings. When it is pushed "back", and settles in the "high" position, as a proper bowline collar, and it is  encircling the Standing end and the Tail pair of lines, we get the single nipping turn based bowlines. It is a nice example of "bi-stable" knots (3),(4), where one can see that topology does not determine geometry uniquely. But we have talked about it, have nt we ? (5)

1.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4354.0
2.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4603.0
3.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4201.0
4.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4603.msg29719#msg29719
5.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3989.msg29176#msg29176
 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 08:32:45 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alanleeknots

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Re: A simple TIB locked bowline
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2013, 12:31:40 PM »
Hi All,
       Thanks very much for the help, X1, Luca and Ruby. you guys have a great day.

       I just finished upload 5 videos, hope you like it.

       謝謝   alan   lee.
 
       alanleeknots   at youtube
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 12:32:45 PM by eric22 »