Author Topic: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.  (Read 8360 times)

X1

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A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« on: July 02, 2013, 04:03:28 AM »
   Alan Lee has presented another nice, most secure double-nipping-loop / double-collar "Eskimo"- like  bowline, based on a Pretzel nipping structure. (1). ( By "Eskimo"- like, I mean a post-eye-tiable loop where the last part of the returning eye leg, as it enters into the knot s nub, it forms an L-shaped deflexion, a "step" : so it remains perpendicular to the standing end = it emains perpendicular to the axis of the loading of the loop ).
   While I was trying to explain why me, personally, I prefer another, very similar loop which is based on a Girth hitch nipping structure, I said that : " The Girth hitch is .. much easier to tie and inspect [ than this Pretzel hitch ]". The very moment I wrote this sentence, I realized that the Girth hitch and this (particular) Pretzel hitch are not very different after all... and that one could start from the Girth hitch, rearrange its strands a little bid, and tie the Pretzel hitch. In this thread I show one way one can do this - there may well be many others, even simpler to remember, but that was the first one which happened to cross my mind !   :)
   
   1. Tie a Girth hitch nipping structure, so that the "bridge" that connects its two loops goes "over" the two parallel and adjacent segments of its ends  ( the standing end and the eye leg of the standing part ). Drive the returning eye leg through the two nipping loops of this Girth hitch. Leave the eye that is formed with this move in the same place where it is formed, at the one side of the Girth hitch, without re-arranging its legs  or moving its tip in any way. ( At the attached picture, the eye lies at the right side of the frame. I has supposed that most right-handed people would prefer to hold the working end with their right hand, as they will be pushing it through the two loops. To achieve such an orientation, the standing end should be placed at the left side of the frame ).
   
   2. Push the eye leg of the standing part "over" the standing end, towards the left side of the picture. The two ends remain parallel, as before, but now the standing end is at the right side of the frame, and the eye leg of the standing part at the left side of the frame.
   
   3. Tighten the knot a little bid in this position, so its strands would not be able to be re-arranged by themselves during the next move. You do not need to tighten it all the way, just enough, so its four limbs, the standing end, the tail and the two eye legs would remain in the same place they were at the end of the second stage.
 
    4 .Flip the whole eye over the whole nub ( tail included ), so it reaches its final position. So, the eye would move from the lower right side of the frame to the upper left side, and then to the upper centre. The Standing end and the tail will remain where they were, but the tip of the eye and the two eye legs would be in the position they should occupy in a ready to be loaded loop.
   
   I can only hope that there would be at least one interested reader, who would follow those instructions, tie the knot a number of times, and then report his/hers experience and opinion here. I do not doubt that there are many other methods, that would probably suit him/her better - because all knot tyers tie the same knots in different ways:)  I have only tried to figure out a plausible, easy to remember and follow method, that relates, in some way, the this Pretzel hitch to the Girth hitch.

  {  I would also like to mention here, that this Pretzel "Eskimo"- like eyeknot is one of the stronger non-fixed post-eye-tiable loops we have - it is so strong that it can be used in the place of a fixed loop, when the load we anticipate is not very heavy. Its nipping structure is so self-stabilizing, the L-shaped "Eskimo" - like deflexion / "step"  of the returning eye leg is so effective, that we do not even need a colar structure !  Evidently, the "slipped" version of this adjustable eyeknot is TIB (tiable-in-the-bight)  and PET (post-eye-tiable), two very useful and convenient properties. }.

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4125.msg28347#msg28347
 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 02:33:11 PM by X1 »

X1

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2013, 03:45:41 PM »
Evidently, the "slipped" version of this adjustable eyeknot is TIB (tiable-in-the-bight)  and PET (post-eye-tiable), two very useful and convenient properties. }.
   From "evidently", through "apparently, to "obviously" - see the attached pictures.
   The "slipped" version has two more advantages, we should not underestimate : a double/twin tail line is stiffer than a single one, and, as a pivot, forces the standing part to follow wider curves around it :  the first is beneficial to the knot stability = security, the second to the knot s strength.
   The knot should better be dressed so that the first leg of the tail is in direct and extended contact with the strong standing part s first curve - that is, it should better be located "lower" than the slipped leg.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 03:47:26 PM by X1 »

xarax

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 10:58:24 AM »
   Pictures of this "Eskimo"-like loop, based on a Pretzel nipping structure - which structure is so tight, and so well-balanced in relation to the axis of the knot, that, for most every-day uses, it does not require a collar ! (1)( Of course, if one wants to retain the TIB property of this loop, he/she can always reeve the bight of the eye through the bight of the slipped Tail End, and form an "upper" collar ( = a collar around the pair of the Standing and the Tail Ends ) or a "lower" collar ( = a collar around the pair of the eye legs ). I do not believe that this collar will be loaded, ever - even under heavy loading, I think that this extremely tight double nipping structure will be able to immobilize the returning eye leg completely. In the not-so-distant future, I hope I will try to test this conjecture ... ).

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4684
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 11:04:42 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 05:20:55 AM »
   Pictures of this "Eskimo"-like loop, based on a Pretzel nipping structure
--which structure is so tight, and so well-balanced in relation to the axis of the knot,
that, for most every-day uses, it does not require a collar !

I loaded 11mm low-elongation kernmantle to
maybe 500# (standing in lousy 5:1 pulley).
It held, looked decent, and will be easily untied.

--dl*
====

xarax

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 08:16:47 AM »
   Thank you ! A test is always a trial, before it grows up !  :) :) And any loosy pulley is a much more clever device, than a chair hanged in mid-air from the ceiling, with two grown up persons jumping up and down on it !
   
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 02:43:56 PM »
   I remember I had mentioned it, in passing, more than once, but I do not remember if I had posted pictures of this Pretzel nipping structure, turned into a TIB bowline by the "haltering collar" method, described elsewhere. Anyway, here are two pictures of the loose knot - it is a vey easy to tie TIB secure bowline, based on the very tight and well-balanced Pretzel-shaped double nipping loop, shown in the previous posts of this thread. ( "Very easy", provided one has understood this easy but not obvious method, of course ).
   In a sense, this is the safest TIB bowline I know - even if both collars have been somehow / accidentally cut-off or pulled out completely, the loop will still remain in its place, because it will be transformed into the Pretzel "Eskimo" like loop, shown in the previous posts.
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2014, 02:05:05 PM »
  I do not follow the method described in this thread any more. Instead, I just form an asymmetric Pretzel (*), and then pass the returning eye leg first through its "higher" and then through its "lower" opening, as shown in the last picture of the first post. I push the rims of those two openings towards each other between my thumb and my index finger, so the continuation of the returning eye leg which penetrates them remains as straight as possible during the dressing / pre-tightening of the nub.
  So : Asymmetric Pretzel on the Standing Part, returning eye leg first through the "higher" opening, then through the "lower" opening. ( See the second attached picture ).

(*) There are two Pretzel-shaped nipping structures, topologically equivalent to the unknot ( so the generated loop is PET ) : The (more) asymmetric is the one where both ends, when they leave the nub, are both on the same side/face of the Pretzel s "belly". ( In the attached picture, they are both "under" the "belly" of the initial Pretzel . Then, the one becomes the Standing End, and the other the leaving eye leg  ).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 02:45:42 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Ruby

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2015, 11:25:47 AM »
  I do not follow the method described in this thread any more. Instead, I just form an asymmetric Pretzel (*), and then pass the returning eye leg ...


maybe the most important step is how to "form an asymmetric Pretzel".

why not say something about your method. though after some practice it just cost me half a second.

once I didn't know how to tie your Oyster Bend, and I saw someone else complaining about it in this forum.
now I can tie it easily in two or three methods. just need practice.

xarax

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Re: A tying method of the Pretzel "Eskimo" - like loop.
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2015, 12:14:15 PM »
an asymmetric Pretzel

"Asymmetric", means that the two ends are at the same side of the "Pretzel"-looking unknot.
The last picture of my previous post tell all one has to know to tie this loop.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 12:15:56 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.