Author Topic: Rolling Hitch  (Read 2684 times)

Festy

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Rolling Hitch
« on: July 09, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »
a Rolling Hitch.

I've searched on the forum but nothing found.

Now, on Youtube there seems to be differing variations of this knot and I was just wondering if there is a best method to use and if it is in fact the most secure gripping hitch we know of?

SS369

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 09:50:09 PM »
Hi Festy.

I too did a quick search and came up with nothing for the term "Rolling Hitch". That doesn't mean it has not been discuss, just that the search was deficient.

I think of the various versions (numerous ABoK #'s) of tying this there may be dependency on the use intended and the materials in play.

IMO. there are better hitches, though not necessarily simpler ones.

Do you have a decided use for a hitch to do something in particular. Grip and release? Permanent installation? To a pole or a rope, etc.?

SS

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 10:10:33 PM »
I'm also surprised that the search turns up nothing;
did you Search from the top level (and so reach the
"sub"-forums all, and not, say, just ChitChat)?

"Taut-line hitch" gets one something similar.  And,
yes, there are various knots going by this name
of "rolling hitch".

Is it the best ... ?  That will depend on various factors.
E.g., it's one that can be tied *under duress* better
than some others; but it's not so good at grip-&-release
tasks (such as ascending a rope).

--dl*
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Festy

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 10:23:21 PM »
yeah, did the search again just now and it's throwing up lots of hits, probably just gremlins before, no worries  :)


Festy

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 11:11:54 AM »
It has been described on Youtube as the 'Tautline Hitch' in one video, and it has also been described as better than the 'Tautline' in another.

I have checked the 'Notable Knots' website and it's not mentioned there at all, and I'd imagine it would be included there if it was notable.  :)

TMCD

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 02:38:13 PM »
There's three prominent versions of the Rolling Hitch and Ashley gives these in his bible. I use the "Cow Hitch" version, not sure what number in Ashley it is but I like it better and Ashley reports that it resists twisting better than the other two versions. I tie down most of my ladders using this method and haven't had a problem with it.

Festy

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 04:49:23 PM »
There's three prominent versions of the Rolling Hitch and Ashley gives these in his bible. I use the "Cow Hitch" version, not sure what number in Ashley it is but I like it better and Ashley reports that it resists twisting better than the other two versions. I tie down most of my ladders using this method and haven't had a problem with it.

Is the 'Rolling Hitch' the best knot for tying/untying a rope under tension?

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 06:08:22 PM »
There's three prominent versions of the Rolling Hitch and Ashley gives these in his bible. I use the "Cow Hitch" version, not sure what number in Ashley it is but I like it better and Ashley reports that it resists twisting better than the other two versions. I tie down most of my ladders using this method and haven't had a problem with it.

Is the 'Rolling Hitch' the best knot for tying/untying a rope under tension?

1) I'd not trust some of the simple, half-hitch closures
to gripping hitches for many uses/conditions, but would
put in a stopper of some further precaution against
coming untied --YMMV w/various factors, of course.
(There is that sort of timber-hitch-like "dogging" of the tail.)

2) For quick taking off tension, one can put in a half-hitch
/"turNip/"nipping turn" (or two), and then fashion the
full rolling hitch or Prohgrip/Blakes' with easier working.

E.g., I just was using some beachcombed jetsam commercial
marine ropes** to pull down vines that were climbing trees,
and tried various things : a spaced sequence of turNips,
or one or double guarding a rolling hitch or Prohgrip,
or the "coil-away" part of the latter formed as the first-loaded
"guard" and tail turned around SPart and taken away into
a (mere) clove hitch for closure.

{** I had some metre-longish 8mm? dia. laid ropes with
overhand loops in one end (no idea what original use was)
for doing the gripping on the vines, joining this to a nicely
think --for hand gripping-- PP & CoEx PP/PE linked rope for
much of the hauling/pulling --and (NB!) I broke the thick
old, aged (UV-degraded, splintering (soft splinters)) CoEx
rope!  (Oh, in some other pulling I broke one of the 8mm
laid poly-DAC ropes, amazingly --it was not much force.
("poly-DAC" means "Dacron (polyester)-wrapped PP",
in many cases; sometimes the mixture is otherwise
formed with both fibres seeing exposure --and the PP
is black, to resist UV.)
}

Have some fun with these things in experimenting, where
conditions allow (and they might even allow with the serious
securing of ladders, IF one has an assured back-up).  Certainly,
in my impromptu yard work, I could play; if something didn't
work, I'd look to see what needed redressing and try again.
(One can grip a vine's sheath and rip it down a moist-slick
inner skin!)

.:.  IN SHORT, I don't see it in knotting literature, but it
makes sense and good effect, often, to **guard** some
known friction hitch with a preliminary, first-loaded gripping
structure of a turNip (maybe 2, 3) or fuller gripping
structure (say, the "Gripper hitch" --a sort of clove
& H-H
-- presented here as a new knot; or the differently
dressed double turns of some "rolling hitch" version,
with the tail of this taken into the full, completing knot.
This can result in a more secure, stable hitch; and it can
buy one time to make do the tying.


--dl*
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 06:55:53 AM »
Is the 'Rolling Hitch' the best knot for tying/untying a rope under tension?

The Round Turn and Two Half Hitches is a better choice.
The round turn holds the load while the half hitches hold the round turn.

YMMV, but there will be cases where the RT&2HH tends
to lose tension in its setting --hard to make the 2nd HH
so snug-- when tension would've been better held in putting
in a rolling h. or the guarded structure aforementioned.

Note that here we're really talking about a taut-line hitch
which, much like the RT&2HH is a noose, the line
hitching to itself, after turning (or round-turning around
the object!  (A rolling h. to an object in a strict sense
is just a clove h. w/extra turn, and could also work.)
 ;)

--dl*
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TomD

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Re: Rolling Hitch
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 12:20:34 AM »
Hello, all. 

First, a compliment - I'm a newbie, and have really been enjoying and learning a lot from the IGTK forum.  Thank you.

Going back to the original question:  One of the fun things about knot tying is that some knots are known by multiple names, don't you think?.  Checked a couple of books - KNOTS by Des Pawson includes a Rolling Hitch.  Maria Constantino's Pocket Guide to Knots does, too - and provides aliases of Magnus Hitch and Magner's Hitch.  The BSA Field Book uses both Rolling and Magnus names, and observes that is tied like a taut line hitch.  That is, the loops look the same, but one is applied to a stave, the other to the standing part of it's own line.  And the applied tensions are 90 degrees from each other.  Geometrically, the part of the line that is the "end" in a taut line hitch would be the standing part of the line in the Rolling Hitch orientation.  Seeing the patterns really helps me understand the knots better. 

In any event, the Rolling/Magnus Hitch as described in those three books is in the same family of knots as the Clove Hitch.

Re the "tied under tension" question - isn't that a somewhat different application?  For example, tying a small boat to a post on a windy day?  Yes, completely agree that's more of a two half hitches application - with the round turn, or two, bearing the load so the two half hitches can be tied easily.  By contrast, a clove hitch type of knot is used, e.g. to start a square lashing.  Nothing under tension as the knot is being tied, and the forces will be relatively static.

Thanks again.